The muslim teaching assistant in the UK - shocking poll results!

[Ozarks]

Obviously she has no desire to" become British", and believes Britain should change it's culture to placid her.

[Fengzi]

I've been following this debate quite closely and I agree with Torog 100%.

With regard to her position as a teaching assistant it is imperative that she remove that veil during classes, and anywhere that children will see her. The sight of a woman in a burkha and a veil which coveres the full face is frightening for a small child. When my daughter was a little younger than she is now she found the sight of these women in full veil and burkha to be quite terrifying. Whenever we passed them in the street she would instinctively cling to me in fear. Now, I don't think my little girl is a racist. She has a lot of friends of all clours in her class and she plays with them all. It's not an issue within the home either as she sees my friends of all races coming to visit and stuff. There's just something terrifying about someone wearing a mask when you are a small child. No amount of cultural readjustment or any other such nonsense is going to change that. The woman can either take off that veil or lose her job. No two ways about it. Would they let me go into a school dressed up as Darth Vader? Of course not, so let's have a bit of common sense here. England is a secular country and religion is a private issue. It ought to be kept that way.

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I was thinking along the same lines. To say that her veil does not prevent her from doing her job is taking a pretty narrow view of "doing her job". There is more to teaching than just lecturing and writing on the board, especially at an elementary (they said "junior" school so I'm making an assumption) level. My big question is would it be a distraction for the children and how would they respond to it? To be a teacher implies that those who are being taught are learning. If her wearing the veil in any way inhibits the children's learning, say by being such a distraction that they pay more attention to it than their lessons, than it should be forbidden.

Their has to be a limit on the whole "freedom of religion" argument when it is applied to discrimination in the workplace. What if she were a he, and was from some tribe in Papua New Guniea were the men wear nothing but a penis gourd (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/pgourd3b.jpg). If he were a teacher, would he be allowed to wear that to class? Most likley not. But what it was part of his religion? Wouldn't it be descrimination to forbid him from wearing it? If this woman is allowed to wear her veil, then he would have to be allowed his gourd.

What if in addition to her veil she expects to be allowed to stop class so she can face Mecca and pray several times a day? Should this be allowed? And, at what point does all of this start to impose on a child's right not to have the Mulsim religion forced on him/her?

Bottom line, it is wrong to deny someone a job because of their religion. It is not wrong, however, to demand that they adhere to a certain code of conduct and demeanor.

[VoidLivesOn]

If this is really a safety issue and it would bother them that much then why won't they just search her every morning to refrain from making is such a big controversy. Or I guess they might just be against the religous practice?

[VoidLivesOn]

I've been following this debate quite closely and I agree with Torog 100%.

With regard to her position as a teaching assistant it is imperative that she remove that veil during classes, and anywhere that children will see her. The sight of a woman in a burkha and a veil which coveres the full face is frightening for a small child. When my daughter was a little younger than she is now she found the sight of these women in full veil and burkha to be quite terrifying. Whenever we passed them in the street she would instinctively cling to me in fear. Now, I don't think my little girl is a racist. She has a lot of friends of all clours in her class and she plays with them all. It's not an issue within the home either as she sees my friends of all races coming to visit and stuff. There's just something terrifying about someone wearing a mask when you are a small child. No amount of cultural readjustment or any other such nonsense is going to change that. The woman can either take off that veil or lose her job. No two ways about it. Would they let me go into a school dressed up as Darth Vader? Of course not, so let's have a bit of common sense here. England is a secular country and religion is a private issue. It ought to be kept that way.

Incidentally, I heard the woman in question being interviewed on the radio the other day and she sounded like a complete cretin. As well as having nothing to say of any note, and being unable to string a sentence together without using the word "ermmmmm" she was possessed of a quite obvious speech impediment. Coupled with a very strong "asian" accent it was practically impossible to understand a word she was saying.

Well I'm from somewhere not so secular and private about religion and I think your statement about a child being scared to death of some lady with her face covered up is probably true, but in an extreme way. I'm sure there could, in fact, be adjustment especially with a child. A child would not see this lady and shun her from her/his life...they could get to know this teacher and actually be raised in a culturally disparate enviroment. That way were not rasing a bunch of sheltered, arrogant children oblivous to the fact its possible for people to look different then mommy or daddy.

Other than that I have never heard this lady talk or seen her I just know of her situation, and felt that the idea of the way she chooses to dress her self, be it for beliefs or not, wouldn't effect a child.

Safety of course is another issue. Pit Bulls attack everyday, for that reason most people treat that particular dog differently then other dogs. Muslims in veils have been known to be violent, as a result are treated differently.

[Psycho4Bud]

What if she were a he, and was from some tribe in Papua New Guniea were the men wear nothing but a penis gourd (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/pgourd3b.jpg). If he were a teacher, would he be allowed to wear that to class?

LMAO!!! First thing that came to mind is that pointer that the teachers use. Thanks for the laugh dude!!!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[VoidLivesOn]

I was thinking along the same lines. To say that her veil does not prevent her from doing her job is taking a pretty narrow view of "doing her job". There is more to teaching than just lecturing and writing on the board, especially at an elementary (they said "junior" school so I'm making an assumption) level. My big question is would it be a distraction for the children and how would they respond to it? To be a teacher implies that those who are being taught are learning. If her wearing the veil in any way inhibits the children's learning, say by being such a distraction that they pay more attention to it than their lessons, than it should be forbidden.

Their has to be a limit on the whole "freedom of religion" argument when it is applied to discrimination in the workplace. What if she were a he, and was from some tribe in Papua New Guniea were the men wear nothing but a penis gourd (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/pgourd3b.jpg). If he were a teacher, would he be allowed to wear that to class? Most likley not. But what it was part of his religion? Wouldn't it be descrimination to forbid him from wearing it? If this woman is allowed to wear her veil, then he would have to be allowed his gourd.

What if in addition to her veil she expects to be allowed to stop class so she can face Mecca and pray several times a day? Should this be allowed? And, at what point does all of this start to impose on a child's right not to have the Mulsim religion forced on him/her?

Bottom line, it is wrong to deny someone a job because of their religion. It is not wrong, however, to demand that they adhere to a certain code of conduct and demeanor.

oh...ok

[Torog]

If this is really a safety issue and it would bother them that much then why won't they just search her every morning to refrain from making is such a big controversy. Or I guess they might just be against the religous practice?

Howdy Void,

You bring up an interesting point,that being that if the pc crowd wins on this issue,then she should agree to being submitted to a weapon scan and a bomb-sniffing dog,everyday. To search her physically,would result in outrage and the neighborhood will burn,as muslims seem to prefer violence and not dialogue and compromise,and submitting her to a bomb-sniffing dog,is another outrage to muslims,as dogs are considered impure. In fact,muslim taxi-drivers,refuse to pick -up folks with dogs or holding alcoholic drinks in their hands,even if it's a blind person,with a guide dog.

So you see,it seems that muslims believe that it's perfectly fine-to impose their religious beliefs on us..no tolerance or compromise,is in the equation..why do we put up with a double standard ?

Have a good one ...

[ukmonkey]

My god I would not like to see her walk into my school for her sake. She would be the one who got terrorised.