Can God make a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?

[Krogith]

This world today that we all see is a result of being with out god. See what happends when were not following his standards? This world today is proof enouf that we need God and the order he provides. What else would you need to prove to you that Humans would distroy them selfs? We as a Human Race have proven we need God. Thus proveing Satan Wrong.

We would never be able to have peace and happyness with out God.

[harris7]

i think it is funny that you believe that people who are religious are happier than non believers. I bet you also believe that people who are religious are more giving too. Are they also more altruistic.

Lucky for us these are things that can actually be studied. And they have been, and there has been no difference found to date.

the entire religion is base on self interest. Be good for other people and you’ll go to heaven. Why cant we just be good to each other because it is right.

But I guess you were right, the world was a lot better when religion ruled. ?you know burning women, homosexuals and everyone not like yourselves. Yup back then the world was great.

christians throughout history should be seen as equals with the Nazis. For example they killed 9 million women through witch hunts.

Oooo and how about the third degree ever heard of that. It is the third level of torture were they put the “mouth pear” in your mouth. It is a steel ball that slowly expands … and you can take it from there.

This was left for people who didn’t like your beliefs

[Pass That Shit]

The earth is a rock and God has his way with it, so how heavy of a rock you talkin?
Can the universe itself contain the rock that God himself cannot lift?

These threads just keep going around and around like a merry go round. Enjoy the ride :thumbsup:

[mrdevious]

Sorry if you feel hes not there. God does exsist and he would want you to seek him out and he would give you something to make sence of him. The Bible makes perfect sence, and science has proven it right.

lol, "science has proven it". Well you can't really prove whether or not a lot of the stories happened. But I suppose the "scientific proof" (a term a lot of people here use thinking it makes their argument solid) would be consistencies in biblical stories, like the fish skeletons found on top of mountains coinciding with Noah's Arc. Problem is, this "scientific proof" only exists because christians choose to interpret these vague pieces of evidence. Like if there's a flood: "see, noah had a flood! We just proved there was a flood! That proves noah's arc is true!" (rather than just assuming that geographical changes have happened naturally and there are solid geological explanations as to how they happened). I've seen no evidence "proving" the bible right that isn't vague enough to also coincide with continental drift, natural geographical changes, evolutionary processes, and many more.

Why would you choose another path?

Because I choose to believe in reality rather than the nicest idea. The only way humanity will one day create the world we need, is by figuring it out ourselves.

Your understanding of life is going to get you somewhere? All of our Human race has died and doesn't come back. So why do you want to belive Humans?

And your understanding of life is going to get your somewhere I can't go? Your argument works under the assumption that you're already right, rather than making the point of why you are right.

I don't believe "humans", I believe my own logic. and humans are the ones who invented religion anyway.

What proof do you have that he does not exsist?

If you even heard the proof, would you actually convert? I don't think so.
Regardless, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. and don't try to spin the logic into "but you're claming he doesn't exist". The world we live in without god is directly visible, detectable, and repeatable. The world that exists with a god looking over us is a claim, a concept, an explanation to what we can't yet understand. I don't have to prove something doesn't exist anymore than I'd have to prove the invisble flying spagetti monster doesn't exist. I can't prove ANYTHING that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. The only logical "proof" that's needed is for the existence of what you're claiming does exist.

And what facts do you have to to suport that you are the most advanced thing and this ( life ) is it?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the most advanced thing", but I didn't really say anything to that effect. but again, I don't need to prove that his life is it, and it very well may carry on in one form or another. But if you're going to claim that life exists beyond death, it's up to you to back up that claim, not for me to just disprove everything anybody can conjure up before it's considered logically invalid.

When you know that you can not prove the bible wrong, what makes you choose otherwise?

There are plenty of flaws in the bible that can be proven wrong. Even so, the bible is just a book of stories. Can you prove the pagan's are wrong? how about the babylonians, egyptians, shintoists, buddhists, hindu's? You can never prove anything wrong when it never existed (this seems to be a repeated theme).

Because you just don;t want to except life as a gift?

I want to know, to the closest possible extent, the true nature of life. I don't believe I'm going to accomplish that believing in dieties.

That you would owe it to God to give him time and apply what he teaches?

Again, trying to prove you're right by already assuming you're right. I don't owe imaginary beings anything. I made my effort, I did my research, and arguement's supporting god have all been lame.

Why do you fight the fact that bible principles would lead you to a better life?

Personally, I think Buddhist principles have led me to a better life. And I tried christian principles for a good 18 years. I have no doubt that christian principles help you life a good life, but it's not for everybody. And besides, believing in something on a moral basis rather than a logical basis, is just wishfull thinking. I wouldn't mind believing that malaria didn't kill millions of people every year, that won't make it so.

You like the world and it's distruction and missery?

No, I'm rather saddened at all the uncessesary suffering that goes on in the world. That doesn't mean believing in some magical man in the sky will make it all better.

You think you know better than what God laid out for you?

STILL making an argument based on the assumption that you're already right. Do you do you seriously believe in something because the concept of your belief would make it right to believe in it? It's incredibly circular logic.

Reject it then. You choose. This is the whole point of life and freewill, We are all chooseing what we want to, or chooseing to follow what God set out for us. Thats the point. Satan started Humans on the corse of Sin, you choose to turn to God, or turn away. But God's plain of a perfect earth FULL of Humans that want to serve him all working in harmony with Jehovah God's rules, Will come and all who choose to not be part of it wont be.

etc etc.... Believe in your god all you want, I'm not crossing over because of stories about this "satan" who goes around tricking people.

Remember everybody, Logic is just the devil whispering in your ear.

[moorephened]

The earth is a rock and God has his way with it, so how heavy of a rock you talkin?
Can the universe itself contain the rock that God himself cannot lift?

These threads just keep going around and around like a merry go round. Enjoy the ride :thumbsup:

Thank you for keeping your post rock related.:thumbsup:

[harris7]

Regardless, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. and don't try to spin the logic into "but you're claming he doesn't exist". The world we live in without god is directly visible, detectable, and repeatable. The world that exists with a god looking over us is a claim, a concept, an explanation to what we can't yet understand. I don't have to prove something doesn't exist anymore than I'd have to prove the invisble flying spagetti monster doesn't exist. I can't prove ANYTHING that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. The only logical "proof" that's needed is for the existence of what you're claiming

agreed

Krogith, you must understand that we do not HAVE a belief. It is that we lack yours. And it is very difficult to prove the validity of lacking a belief. In fact every person lacks an unlimited number of crazy beliefs like the boogie man and shit like that. No one goes around asking us to justify not having these beliefs. And as mrdevious said, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

Science cannot relate to religion so lets stop trying to prove it right or wrong with science. In science a theory must be falsifiable otherwise it is left to the philosophers.

This is why Freud’s work isn’t useful, because it cannot be proved wrong. His ideas explain Everything about the psyche but then again so does Adler’s theory. So we have two different belief systems that explain every possible event. At least one of them has to be wrong but we will never know. Same goes for religion, there are lots of different religions and most are inconsistent with each other. Therefore some or all must be wrong.


ps- I would say the rock would also have to be unlimitlessly powerful. Why can we only have one all-powerful agent can two not exist?

[Pass That Shit]

"Thank you for keeping your post rock related."



"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

I couldn't resist this shameless plug :thumbsup:

[IamTheWalrus]

By asking this question, you're proposing a logical paradox which in and of itself can only exist in the conceptual form. Anyway,to create the stone which is so heavy he can't lift it, it must indeed possess a force which is stronger than god. So, the question really is "can god create an entity more powerfull than himself?". Since god by definition is infinite in power and omniscience, the answer is a solid "no." Not because of a limitation in the power of god, however, but only due to a limitation in the boundaries of logic. Hence, the paradox exists in hypothetical terms only.
(This is also why I never liked this particular atheist argument against the existence of god, challenging the concept of an omnipitant being).

I hope that all comes out making sense, I'm on a very strange, pleasurable, and powerfull high right now.

but God probably is farther than the boundaries of logic, and they do not apply to him...possibly....also I think its possible God could create something superior to himself, but is smart enough not too... because well hes out of a job, but how can something possess more knowledge than an all knowing entity this is more confusing than Brahman.....

[harris7]

but God probably is farther than the boundaries of logic, and they do not apply to him...possibly....also I think its possible God could create something superior to himself, but is smart enough not too... because well hes out of a job, but how can something possess more knowledge than an all knowing entity this is more confusing than Brahman.....

I agree with you on both counts. If God does exist, I would not expect understand him. us humans on the other hand are slaves to logic. I do on the other hand expect logic to apply to our beliefs

But on the note about the all powerful being creating a more powerful being. If we were to think about this as infinite power.
There are different â??levelsâ?� of infinity. Some infinities are greater than others. I donâ??t feel like going into the proof. But you could think about it like that, maybe

[BigNugs4U]

well Mr Devious, with regards to you original question, the answer would probably be one that we could not even fathom. I.E., it is not a simple yes or no, the best way i could describe it would be:

Pretend you are at the beach, and have a sand bucket. You fill the bucket with water for the first time ever and think "Wow, i can hold water in my hands" then you think "i want to use this bucket as a means to hold the whole ocean in my hands". Well, in our physical world, it would be physically impossible to do so. However, God would be able to fit all oceans, and anything else into that same sized bucket. That would be something most of us do not understand 100%