Can God make a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?

[the yeag]

well i am the pontiff of pot...i am not even religous...i just wear my st. christopher cause the ladies think it's sexy.

[stinkyattic]

...i just wear my st. christopher cause the ladies think it's sexy.

Oh my goodness.... you have to have a furry chest for that to happen!

[the yeag]

no i'ts kinda smooth, and i dont wear a members only jacket

[the yeag]

hey stinky why dont ya ever come in the chat.....lots of great people there

[Krogith]

But how is it free will if god designed the entire universe, set every event in motion, and in his omniscience, knows the decisions every person will make? It was god's doing that formed the universe, and the earth. It was god's doing that humanity came about, and it was god's doing in regard to how every human being was designed, physically and mentally. Whether or not we believe in god depends on what factors formed our minds the way they are today. There are only 2 factors that can influence our possition on god, that being external influence which shapes our perceptions of the world (all of which god set in motion, and can track till the end of time). The other factor being the nature of ones mind, the internal mental processes that which put together logic in a certain order so as to come to a conclusion. If god created the order of the entire universe, knows what will happen to every atom, and because of the physical processes set in motion had my mind formed the way it is today, isn't it gods fault I don't believe in him? We can all say we have "Freedom of will" to choose god or not, but everything from the world I experience to the nature of the mind I posess is the work of god, and therefor god's doing.

There is a huge sorce for you to goto and learn about and make sence of, It's called the bible. Doing reaserch and learning about God takes effort. You decide ither to place your effort in the serch for god or into other things.

Self intrest is just what the word means. You are decideing you know best and presuing your own path. If you truely want to know god you have to look and apply. It takes work. You choose to ignore that work or choose to follow it.

It has to make sence for you to belive it right? Well look into it and serch. If you choose to do your own path, then thats what your chooseing to do. God does not want people to just follow because they have to. He wants the ones who seek him out and put effort into why God gave Them life.

And being a Gift given to you, that you would not normaly have. Don't you owe God that Effort? He freely gave you life. Choose.

[mrdevious]

There is a huge sorce for you to goto and learn about and make sence of, It's called the bible. Doing reaserch and learning about God takes effort. You decide ither to place your effort in the serch for god or into other things.

Self intrest is just what the word means. You are decideing you know best and presuing your own path. If you truely want to know god you have to look and apply. It takes work. You choose to ignore that work or choose to follow it.

It has to make sence for you to belive it right? Well look into it and serch. If you choose to do your own path, then thats what your chooseing to do. God does not want people to just follow because they have to. He wants the ones who seek him out and put effort into why God gave Them life.

And being a Gift given to you, that you would not normaly have. Don't you owe God that Effort? He freely gave you life. Choose.

You assume much about me and my efforts Krogith. But I didn't come to atheism because I was raised that way, or it just seemed easy to believe. I firmly believed in god till I was 18, then I started asking more questions. When I believed in god I used a lot of the rediculous logic I've heard people use, but more often I'd just say "well such and such is so complex in this universe, it must be designed". But after a while I realized that I had to critically examine all the evidence, otherwise I'm just believing what's nicest to believe. I spent hours upon hours, days upon days, examing every argument I could find for the existence of god. And I can honestly say that no matter how hard I searched, no matter how many sites and books claimed to have "proof of god", I could also see some glaring leap in logic. I hate to break it to you, but most atheists aren't there because they just haven't given it much thought. On the contrary, the minority population of atheists exists because we were some of the few who had to question everything in depth and with logic and reason, and never believe simply because we wanted to, and never accepte an argument just because it reafirmed what we wanted to hear. And now I can honestly say after 2 years of trying desperately to find some logical evidence, that it's a lot of ancient mythology and nothing more.

[Krogith]

You assume much about me and my efforts Krogith. But I didn't come to atheism because I was raised that way, or it just seemed easy to believe. I firmly believed in god till I was 18, then I started asking more questions. When I believed in god I used a lot of the rediculous logic I've heard people use, but more often I'd just say "well such and such is so complex in this universe, it must be designed". But after a while I realized that I had to critically examine all the evidence, otherwise I'm just believing what's nicest to believe. I spent hours upon hours, days upon days, examing every argument I could find for the existence of god. And I can honestly say that no matter how hard I searched, no matter how many sites and books claimed to have "proof of god", I could also see some glaring leap in logic. I hate to break it to you, but most atheists aren't there because they just haven't given it much thought. On the contrary, the minority population of atheists exists because we were some of the few who had to question everything in depth and with logic and reason, and never believe simply because we wanted to, and never accepte an argument just because it reafirmed what we wanted to hear. And now I can honestly say after 2 years of trying desperately to find some logical evidence, that it's a lot of ancient mythology and nothing more.

Every time you come across a Chirch teaching and it doesn't make sence it's time to move on to a differnt Chirch. Bible truths are differnt than what some preacher is teaching.

You have to find a religion that Follows the bible to the letter and not picking, chooseing and confusing.

If you simply follow what the bible says and read it and not what some bozo has said to make himself money. You will find the Truth. Even simple things like the Cross that many people have made an idol, they are FALSE. That is a False pratice. Just like all the holladays. All are based on False teachings, Not the Bible. The trinity where God and Jesus and the Holy Goast are one thing, is False teaching not suported by the Bible.

Seeking God means Following the Bible and not what people have made up. Finding people who apply Bible Truths and follow it to the letter. Like War, anyone who suports War is not teaching Bible Truths. Then you say what about war in the bible? You'll find that the wars in the Bible where setting up Jesus Blood line and we are to be praticeing War no more After Jesus Death. After Jesus died we have a New covenet. Now we have a chance to learn about his father Jehovah (yhwh) throu Jesus life and can recive the everlasting life that Adam and eve lost so long ago. But we have to apply what Jesus did and his teachings. We have to learn about his Father and teach others about his Father.

Just because satan's system has crupted most of the world today doesn't mean to just give up. Most religions are not following the Bible and/or they Twist things like the cross into an idol. GET out of these False Religions. Seek people who pratice what the Bible Teaches. This crupt world is spinning into distruction, don't be part of that.

[harris7]

[quote=mrdevious]You assume much about me and my efforts Krogith. But I didn't come to atheism because I was raised that way, or it just seemed easy to believe. I firmly believed in god till I was 18, then I started asking more questions. . On the contrary, the minority population of atheists exists because we were some of the few who had to question everything in depth and with logic and reason, and never believe simply because we wanted to, and never accepte an argument just because it reafirmed what we wanted to hear. And now I can honestly say after 2 years of trying desperately to find some logical evidence,QUOTE]

Same with me, I was raised religious by my family. I later found out my father wasnâ??t religious. I was told things in church, Sunday school, or by my many religious relatives and I really started questioning it when I was about 14.

I think what you donâ??t realize is that I would love to believe, I wish it were true. That would be fucking great. But unfortunately I cannot escape my thoughts or my logic.
And If there truly is a god, why would he punish me for using what he gave me. (not that this worries me)

I see belief in god in the same way I see racism. In both cases there are people who believe it very strongly. Neither are based on anything factual, both are only supported by brainwashing and dogma but in the latter case people would agree that it is wrong.

[mrdevious]

Every time you come across a Chirch teaching and it doesn't make sence it's time to move on to a differnt Chirch. Bible truths are differnt than what some preacher is teaching.

You have to find a religion that Follows the bible to the letter and not picking, chooseing and confusing.

If you simply follow what the bible says and read it and not what some bozo has said to make himself money. You will find the Truth. Even simple things like the Cross that many people have made an idol, they are FALSE. That is a False pratice. Just like all the holladays. All are based on False teachings, Not the Bible. The trinity where God and Jesus and the Holy Goast are one thing, is False teaching not suported by the Bible.

Seeking God means Following the Bible and not what people have made up. Finding people who apply Bible Truths and follow it to the letter. Like War, anyone who suports War is not teaching Bible Truths. Then you say what about war in the bible? You'll find that the wars in the Bible where setting up Jesus Blood line and we are to be praticeing War no more After Jesus Death. After Jesus died we have a New covenet. Now we have a chance to learn about his father Jehovah (yhwh) throu Jesus life and can recive the everlasting life that Adam and eve lost so long ago. But we have to apply what Jesus did and his teachings. We have to learn about his Father and teach others about his Father.

Just because satan's system has crupted most of the world today doesn't mean to just give up. Most religions are not following the Bible and/or they Twist things like the cross into an idol. GET out of these False Religions. Seek people who pratice what the Bible Teaches. This crupt world is spinning into distruction, don't be part of that.

I was never talking about the church or even any religions though. I was only referring to the fact that I searched out every logical argument for god i could find, and they all fell flat. You keep telling me that I will "find god" if I read thoroughly through the bible, but it seems you want me to just read it and believe it word for word, for no other reason than believing it. There are plenty of ancient religions, with all sorts of gods from Thor, to aphrodite, to Ra and Zeus. All these religions would have their grandiose stories as well, but I'm not going to just assume it's true simply because I read it. No offense or anything Krogith, but I can't help feeling that your concept of "searching" for god is just believing whatever supports him.

[Krogith]

I was never talking about the church or even any religions though. I was only referring to the fact that I searched out every logical argument for god i could find, and they all fell flat. You keep telling me that I will "find god" if I read thoroughly through the bible, but it seems you want me to just read it and believe it word for word, for no other reason than believing it. There are plenty of ancient religions, with all sorts of gods from Thor, to aphrodite, to Ra and Zeus. All these religions would have their grandiose stories as well, but I'm not going to just assume it's true simply because I read it. No offense or anything Krogith, but I can't help feeling that your concept of "searching" for god is just believing whatever supports him.

Sorry if you feel hes not there. God does exsist and he would want you to seek him out and he would give you something to make sence of him. The Bible makes perfect sence, and science has proven it right. Why would you choose another path? Your understanding of life is going to get you somewhere? All of our Human race has died and doesn't come back. So why do you want to belive Humans?

What proof do you have that he does not exsist? And what facts do you have to to suport that you are the most advanced thing and this ( life ) is it? When you know that you can not prove the bible wrong, what makes you choose otherwise? Because you just don;t want to except life as a gift? That you would owe it to God to give him time and apply what he teaches?

Why do you fight the fact that bible principles would lead you to a better life? You like the world and it's distruction and missery? You think you know better than what God laid out for you?

Reject it then. You choose. This is the whole point of life and freewill, We are all chooseing what we want to, or chooseing to follow what God set out for us. Thats the point. Satan started Humans on the corse of Sin, you choose to turn to God, or turn away. But God's plain of a perfect earth FULL of Humans that want to serve him all working in harmony with Jehovah God's rules, Will come and all who choose to not be part of it wont be.