Quote Originally Posted by mrdevious
How did the universe get here? How did the first atom appear? How does the universe have a system of physical laws? why can't we (yet) reproduce life without life?

Well obviously, god did it.


But you'll notice that pretty much every argument for god's existence is in this form. Not empiracle evidence, but rather an explanation that simply fits into the missing piece of the puzzle.

Now let me ask... how does the sun rise? what is the sun made of? where does lightning come from? How does the magic plant get you high? Before science could answer any of these, it was obviously the work of god. And today we carry on that same fallable tradition of placing god in the missing puzzle piece whenever science fails to understand it at that point.

But truly, it was when we rebelled against our dependence on god and started questioning, started asking if the earth really is the center of the universe, if life really did just magically appear, what physical processes actually make the world work, and infinite other questions.... THAT was when we made progress, when we abadoned dependence on god and started making our own solutions. When we realized that biological and genetic manipulation is what cures diseases, that social reform such as slavery abolition and democracy would bring an end to government injustice by a huge margin, when we started making solutions on our own. And while many problems persist and will for a long time, there have been millions of things we had to deal with in the past that we found solutions, without the help of god, but with the help of human intellect and reasoning. One day the same will prove true for cancer, or HIV, or slavery.

science, reason, and most importantly learning how to take care of humanities problems ourselves is innevitably what will create the ideal world.

(In the mean time, I think theists need to start actually taking a look at atheist websites, not just those that confirm their preconceptions. Surely if your logic is so infallable there's nothing to fear in considering the numerous counter-points to the plethora of christian arguments I hear again and again.
I don't see why science and God can't go hand and hand

P.S. FBB, I don't see how he was "manipulative"- I see him as a revolutionary and a radical and perhaps the first communist !