Argument supporting god...?

[Ignatius]

Belief in God has no logic, it's purely a question of faith over reason. I have no belief in God, some do. That's ok with me, I just ask for the same respect as an atheist. Most religions don't afford me that respect. That makes their religion weaker in my eyes for I do not care one iota what they believe, and I have no wish to convert them to atheists. Each to their own, but that doesn't seem to apply to religion as most religions consider it their duty to spread the word of God. I only want to be left alone, nothing else.

[Krogith]

Belief in God has no logic, it's purely a question of faith over reason. I have no belief in God, some do. That's ok with me, I just ask for the same respect as an atheist. Most religions don't afford me that respect. That makes their religion weaker in my eyes for I do not care one iota what they believe, and I have no wish to convert them to atheists. Each to their own, but that doesn't seem to apply to religion as most religions consider it their duty to spread the word of God. I only want to be left alone, nothing else.

Jesus went takeing his followers to teach about his father. God wants you to draw close to him. I know you do not want people forceing there ideas onto you. I am not doing this i am in a spirituality section talking about what i have come to learn. I do not force you to read this or even come to this section. I just want to follow what jesus tought and follow his exsample. and i can;t stop talking about what I have come to know. you can simply not listion if you choose. Sorry if you feel i am forceing a belife

[FireyBudBurner]

Ignatius brings up my biggest problem and counterpoint against organized religion. It creates inequalities among different groups separating them into either believers or non-believers, at the end of the day thats just like racism minus the great deal of hate. And as the islamic Jihandist's have shown even that small aspect of acceptance has been denied to people. Im not a big hater of religious people and I think they follow a lot of great ideal systems, I just see the flaws the the design and the way they use peoples insecurities to get them to believe something. I mean thats the whole reason someone wrote the Bible, the basic need for people to feel like they belong and provide them with a blanket for all of there insecurites about death. People who feel very strongly about there religion can seem brainwashed at times as they don't really listen to other peoples counterpoints and feel like they are challenging their intelligence. Many people hold their beliefs for that reason and the fact that their loved ones have taught them this their whole lives and they think people who loves you would never push something wrong on you. It's scarey to think that theres a group of people so consumed in this cycle and so insecure about their future after death that they are will to kill themselves and others to uphold those beliefs.

[Krogith]

killing one another is wrong and we must love our brothers ( all humans) teaching about Jehovah God and giveing people a Chance to follow or choose to follow there own thinking is what jesus tought. we all are here and chooseing ither to follow god's laws or fall short. You have to SEEK GOD and if your looking and doing the real reaserch then you will come to your own conclushion. Satan is all around us and trying to distract you with false teachings. we need to seek truth out and if your confused your seeking satan's teaching. God's laws and rules will make sence and he is Just. All confushion is Satan blind sighting you. Keep looking tell you find him and Follow what Jesus tought.


1 corinthians 6:9-10 what! do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit god's kingdom? do not be misled. neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adultors, nor men kept for unnatural purposers, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionbers will inherit God's kingdom.

[mrdevious]

How did the universe get here? How did the first atom appear? How does the universe have a system of physical laws? why can't we (yet) reproduce life without life?

Well obviously, god did it.


But you'll notice that pretty much every argument for god's existence is in this form. Not empiracle evidence, but rather an explanation that simply fits into the missing piece of the puzzle.

Now let me ask... how does the sun rise? what is the sun made of? where does lightning come from? How does the magic plant get you high? Before science could answer any of these, it was obviously the work of god. And today we carry on that same fallable tradition of placing god in the missing puzzle piece whenever science fails to understand it at that point.

But truly, it was when we rebelled against our dependence on god and started questioning, started asking if the earth really is the center of the universe, if life really did just magically appear, what physical processes actually make the world work, and infinite other questions.... THAT was when we made progress, when we abadoned dependence on god and started making our own solutions. When we realized that biological and genetic manipulation is what cures diseases, that social reform such as slavery abolition and democracy would bring an end to government injustice by a huge margin, when we started making solutions on our own. And while many problems persist and will for a long time, there have been millions of things we had to deal with in the past that we found solutions, without the help of god, but with the help of human intellect and reasoning. One day the same will prove true for cancer, or HIV, or slavery.

science, reason, and most importantly learning how to take care of humanities problems ourselves is innevitably what will create the ideal world.

(In the mean time, I think theists need to start actually taking a look at atheist websites, not just those that confirm their preconceptions. Surely if your logic is so infallable there's nothing to fear in considering the numerous counter-points to the plethora of christian arguments I hear again and again.

[FireyBudBurner]

Nice post but you kinda just repeated what I said, but hey you agree! Theres many deep seeded reasons most Christians will never convert or even consider the arguement to atheism one of the biggest is the fear of being different.

[JaggedEdge]

How did the universe get here? How did the first atom appear? How does the universe have a system of physical laws? why can't we (yet) reproduce life without life?

Well obviously, god did it.


But you'll notice that pretty much every argument for god's existence is in this form. Not empiracle evidence, but rather an explanation that simply fits into the missing piece of the puzzle.

Now let me ask... how does the sun rise? what is the sun made of? where does lightning come from? How does the magic plant get you high? Before science could answer any of these, it was obviously the work of god. And today we carry on that same fallable tradition of placing god in the missing puzzle piece whenever science fails to understand it at that point.

But truly, it was when we rebelled against our dependence on god and started questioning, started asking if the earth really is the center of the universe, if life really did just magically appear, what physical processes actually make the world work, and infinite other questions.... THAT was when we made progress, when we abadoned dependence on god and started making our own solutions. When we realized that biological and genetic manipulation is what cures diseases, that social reform such as slavery abolition and democracy would bring an end to government injustice by a huge margin, when we started making solutions on our own. And while many problems persist and will for a long time, there have been millions of things we had to deal with in the past that we found solutions, without the help of god, but with the help of human intellect and reasoning. One day the same will prove true for cancer, or HIV, or slavery.

science, reason, and most importantly learning how to take care of humanities problems ourselves is innevitably what will create the ideal world.

Well you did a much better job saying what I was trying to say. Thanks.

I agree with you 100% our dependence on a god is diminishing. I just don't like the idea of waiting for god to make everything alright. We are in charge of our own world and we can't sit around and wait for a man who has been absent for over 2000 years if he ever even existed in the form the bible says. I'm not saying jesus didn't exist, he did. But there is no proof he was the son of god. Everything is based on an old book.

[mrdevious]

Well you did a much better job saying what I was trying to say. Thanks.

I agree with you 100% our dependence on a god is diminishing. I just don't like the idea of waiting for god to make everything alright. We are in charge of our own world and we can't sit around and wait for a man who has been absent for over 2000 years if he ever even existed in the form the bible says. I'm not saying jesus didn't exist, he did. But there is no proof he was the son of god. Everything is based on an old book.

I think Jesus most likely did exist too, and probably as a very wise man. But, there's a lot of evidence that his divinity was added on when the bible was collected and standardized some-odd 600 years after Jesus, largely for the purpose of making christianity more appealing to pagaens.

it's nice to at least have a few like-minded people around here, good to have you here Jaggededge (and fireybudburner)

[FireyBudBurner]

The last great emperor of the Roman empire... Costantine met a group of religous monks who pushed this new idea on him and told him about the magical ways of a man named Jesus of Nazarath. Costantine knew the Roman empire was in its waning years and he wanted to make his mark on the world so he hyped this new religion and changed the whole national religion to make everyone a believer. That act alone of him changing the Roman Empires national religion still rears its head today as people STILL believe in it.

Jesus did exsist he did do great things and had many followers. But he was just a man who wanted to push his own ideas, in fact the way it looks now he was a very manipulative man who thought he was actually the only begotton son of out only creater (talk about an ego). He was a great speaker and had great charisma so naturally people believed him.

[Mud Dauber]

How did the universe get here? How did the first atom appear? How does the universe have a system of physical laws? why can't we (yet) reproduce life without life?

Well obviously, god did it.


But you'll notice that pretty much every argument for god's existence is in this form. Not empiracle evidence, but rather an explanation that simply fits into the missing piece of the puzzle.

Now let me ask... how does the sun rise? what is the sun made of? where does lightning come from? How does the magic plant get you high? Before science could answer any of these, it was obviously the work of god. And today we carry on that same fallable tradition of placing god in the missing puzzle piece whenever science fails to understand it at that point.

But truly, it was when we rebelled against our dependence on god and started questioning, started asking if the earth really is the center of the universe, if life really did just magically appear, what physical processes actually make the world work, and infinite other questions.... THAT was when we made progress, when we abadoned dependence on god and started making our own solutions. When we realized that biological and genetic manipulation is what cures diseases, that social reform such as slavery abolition and democracy would bring an end to government injustice by a huge margin, when we started making solutions on our own. And while many problems persist and will for a long time, there have been millions of things we had to deal with in the past that we found solutions, without the help of god, but with the help of human intellect and reasoning. One day the same will prove true for cancer, or HIV, or slavery.

science, reason, and most importantly learning how to take care of humanities problems ourselves is innevitably what will create the ideal world.

(In the mean time, I think theists need to start actually taking a look at atheist websites, not just those that confirm their preconceptions. Surely if your logic is so infallable there's nothing to fear in considering the numerous counter-points to the plethora of christian arguments I hear again and again.

I don't see why science and God can't go hand and hand

P.S. FBB, I don't see how he was "manipulative"- I see him as a revolutionary and a radical and perhaps the first communist !