Is it just me or...

[wayoftheleaf]

Is it just me or as there just as many if not more pepole on this forums supporting athiesm?

Whether or not god exists is not the point im trying to make here, Athiests believe that the human mind can support itself without the belief in a higher power. I myself firmly believe the bible. However i am willing to go to hell on the premises of childish spite. This shows i am not willing to make a decision yet am adult enough to come to terms with it. Yet if you believe after you die you are completly gone, with absolutely nothing left of you except a body in a ground what is the point. It is just simply the fact there is absolutely nothing to live for if you dont have promise of something better afterwards. Your memory will eventually fade away and nothing will be left, no matter how firmly you attempt to plant it in stone.

Life is subjective. Everything about it is. Your mind creates your own reality. That reality is reality yet you cannot comprehend it. All of the millions, billions, trillions of variables in the equations. Do you know the actual chance of this happening by chance? In all actuality, ANY theory on how we came about is illogical. BELIEVING in god, or the absence of god, either one is illogical. Anything at all in this life is illogical. Yet living is logical and illogical, at the same time if there is nothing to hope for afterwards, or you have something waiting for you, dieing is logical and unlogical as well.

wayoftheleaf Reviewed by wayoftheleaf on 09-24-2006. Is it just me or... Is it just me or as there just as many if not more pepole on this forums supporting athiesm? Whether or not god exists is not the point im trying to make here, Athiests believe that the human mind can support itself without the belief in a higher power. I myself firmly believe the bible. However i am willing to go to hell on the premises of childish spite. This shows i am not willing to make a decision yet am adult enough to come to terms with it. Yet if you believe after you die you are Rating: 5

[Kokujin X]

I agree, it seems there is a whole load of athiests. But to each his own, the battle between God/no God will go on for as long as mankind lives. I believe in God, logically I don't find there couldn't be a God.

Like you said wayoftheleaf, if there is no God then life is illogical. It's completely ridiculous actually. Everything in this universe is going to one day be gone. On it's own natural progression, the universe is doomed. Everything dies, everything deteriorates, breaks down and if there is no God then there is absolutly no reason for any of it. Man is going to pass, life is going to pass and all that would be left is... well, nothing.

Also, just look at what we are. Being a programmer made this aspect more apparent to me. Take a Java workspace for example. When I make a program, it's usually pretty simplistic, 30-40 lines of code but behold, it works! It exists not because of chance, but only because I created it. If I keep this workspace open for 1 trillion years and did not touch it, do you know what would happen? Nothing. I wouldn't come back to see that a very complicated and detailed program wrote its self just by pure chance. It just would not happen.

Look at your digestive system. Carefully put together to crush up food, break it down further, digest vitamins, minerals and also has a way for you to get rid of it and this goes for every system of the body. Look at the male/female parts (not being dirty here...) How could this type of correlation be formed between 2 beings from nothing? The idea of 2 humans making another, this isn't stuff that just appears out of nowhere, even given the environment. It's completely compareable to programming. God made us just like I made that program.

And you know, the more and more technical you want to get about how God did everything the less and less we understand. Simple enough for a child but far too complicated for a genius.

[Hamlet]

'Believing in God' is a complex issue. For the first time in history one can safely say (at least here) that they haven't heard one word from God, or seen one rational reason to 'believe', without getting drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, or driven from society.

So one has to expect a reasonable amount of zeal when they make the statement that what they really believe is that the World has been bullshitting them about this god stuff long enough.

[fikusroot]

People believe in God for the very reason that they refuse to accept the fact that when they die, it will be almost as if they never lived at all. God gives people purpose and convenient answers to a very confusing world. That's why religous people are generally fairly happy. However, the majority of people that are athiests are so because they've been taught their whole life that they will not be able to make a difference and have come to accept that.

As for the notion that the universe is to complex to happen by chance, you are viewing complexity through the narrow window of human perception. Our universe in reality could be very simple. It could have been that the odds were stacked for the universe happening, and that the absence of the universe would have been far more improbable. Persoally, I lean towards the agnostic side that we have and never will have the ability to comprehend the nature of our universe, but what we cannot deny is that for whatever reason, we are here so we might as well make the best of it.

[Captain Hanks]

Is it just me or as there just as many if not more pepole on this forums supporting athiesm?

Whether or not god exists is not the point im trying to make here, Athiests believe that the human mind can support itself without the belief in a higher power. I myself firmly believe the bible. However i am willing to go to hell on the premises of childish spite. This shows i am not willing to make a decision yet am adult enough to come to terms with it. Yet if you believe after you die you are completly gone, with absolutely nothing left of you except a body in a ground what is the point. It is just simply the fact there is absolutely nothing to live for if you dont have promise of something better afterwards. Your memory will eventually fade away and nothing will be left, no matter how firmly you attempt to plant it in stone.

Life is subjective. Everything about it is. Your mind creates your own reality. That reality is reality yet you cannot comprehend it. All of the millions, billions, trillions of variables in the equations. Do you know the actual chance of this happening by chance? In all actuality, ANY theory on how we came about is illogical. BELIEVING in god, or the absence of god, either one is illogical. Anything at all in this life is illogical. Yet living is logical and illogical, at the same time if there is nothing to hope for afterwards, or you have something waiting for you, dieing is logical and unlogical as well.

I know what your saying, because what's the point in living in this agony of a world where everyone is so God-less these days. Life after death is a must, even majore evolutionists know that their theory is false, they use it as comfort.

[fikusroot]

how could they use it as comfort. The theory of evolution is more disturbing the comforting because it renders us even more insignificant. You are also admitting that you have n proof of a god and the only reason you believe in one is as a coping mechanism. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but I still disagree with it because it is being ignorant of truth and facts.

[fikusroot]

What I believe is we are all in a very abstract sense, infinely knowledgeable beings who view the world through our very narrow window of perception. That window does not always show the truth. When we die, then the window is shattered and we get to know our true selves, the ones of infinate wisdom. I believe this in a very metaphoric way though, not literally.

[Krogith]

Jehovah god is proveing the fact that mankind Can Not Rule it self. There are people in this crupted system that are lost and he is loveingly allowing time to pass for thoses ones to come to love him. The rest of the world are set in there greedy HATEFUL ways and will be distroyed with the system of things SATAN has created. LISTION TO JESUS learn about his FATHER and Take to heart his words and apply them. Love your neighbor and your enemy for God Judges all. If your not applying what Jesus has tought then how can you Claim you know god? For there will be ones who call out to God "but i was a good person" God will say he does not know you because you have never applyed what my son whom I sent has Said. THE WORLD HAS FORGOTTEN YOU O JEHOVAH, PLEASE HELP ALL WHO CAN COME TO LOVE YOU. Jesus did what in his life? He tought about his father and about how you can draw close to him. This system of things will not go on forever DO NOT BE COUGHT UP IN IT!

[Mandelbrot]

It is just simply the fact there is absolutely nothing to live for if you dont have promise of something better afterwards.

The whole point is that everybody should understand that life is a cycle, when you'll die, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, phosphore will be released from you and used by bacteria to reinsert theses molecule in the food chain, in the end, feeding other humans or animals like you do currently. The problem with some humans, is that we have reached a relatively higher sens of reflexion and thinking than other species and now some of us are thinking way too much and end up inventing the idea of God so it comfort themselves. But live your life for what it is now, instead of what it could be afterward according to a some bloke thousands years ago. Accept that life hasn't any deep reason, it just happened, a great coïncidence nonetheless, but it has no purpose but to live and to die.

Couple of months ago I had this reflexion while staring at my mother in her coffin at the funeral home. My family (aunts, oncle, grand mother/father) are all devout christian. They were all sad and crying, staring at my mother and everything. I was too, of course. But the reflexion I had was that, if they really believe firmly in God and the so-called idea of life after death, why are they sad if they are otherwise convinced they will see her(or any relative who dies) when they die? I should have been the only one sad as I knew for sure I wouldn't see my mother again, and certainely not when I will be dead. The only answer I came up with was that deep inside our subconsious, everyone knows that life after death isn't true, and so the reaction of crying comes from their subconsious which makes you realise you will never ever see your relative again. Now, there's something to be sad about, otherwise, crying is non sense for devout believer.

[mrdevious]

Argh - the fact that some people believe that everything in the universe happened by chance just astounds me!

The fact that people believe that evolution, or any other non-theistic process, works by a big one-in-a-trillion-chance POOF! ACCIDENT! astounds me.

Regarding some above posts, meaning and logic are not the same thing. You can't really say our universe is utterly "illogical" because it doesn't have a permanent meaning. Everybody seems to be clinging so hard to the illusion of permanence, when all observation shows us everything in our universe is impermanent. When the logic of a structured universe is dependant on "meaning" and a permanent existence, is the conclusion really logic, or desire?

Regarding the higher-up post, leaving a computer station would indeed never give results and leave us a complex computer program. But this is strawman-type fallacy I've seen countless times. Cellphones that can't design themselves, computer programs that can't write themselves, houses that can't build themselves etc. These analogies are working under the assumption that a process in one thing, must apply to ALL things, which just doesn't work. Cellphones, programs, houses, and individually wrapped slices of cheese all have one thing in common: they lack the organically-inique (and proven) biological mechanism of genetic mutation. Scientists have thoroughly explained, and to some degree pressented, how genetic codes can indeed write themselves. Not off some blank slate by some one-in-a-trillion accident, but through gradual changes and additions at the smallest levels happening over billions of years, through trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions of organisms. When two cellphones pass on their genetics, let me know.

and yes, I know many people will probably flame me for "not respecting" people's belief in god, but I don't see it as that at all. People are going to post countless threads here about the existence of god, and no doubt atheists will post a few about the non-existence as well. If one view is allowed so is the other. And if people are going to argue reasons for their being a god, I see no reason why the other can't be debated, that's the basis of philosophical discussion.