Transition

[Oneironaut]

Sorry sorry sorry, I didn't mean "plane" as in a two-dimensional surface, it was just a method of portraying thoughts.

If you're going to proclaim the existence of this mystical "plane" thing, you might want to establish exactly what it is and what evidence you have that it exists.

[MelT]

For one to understand these things you have to have a connection to what one might symoblize as your "higher self'. So. If you want to understand. I say meditate. Meditation never helped me find my higher self. But it seems to help others.

Well, I'm lucky then. I do have a connection with my 'higher self' through direct experience. Nothing has come my way regarding a change in the Universe. No portents, no signs. Perhaps I'm not on the guest list, or maybe my notification got lost in the post?

.[/QUOTE]This is not theory. This is not suspended logic, myth, fantasy, or a book quality. It is experience.[/QUOTE]

How is it experience? What has made it anything more than conjecture and a broad interpretation of anything and everything that would seem to fit in with this prophecy? Saying 'The Universe is vast' doesn't mean anything at all.

MelT

[Polymirize]

I don't think this will go anywhere ate. I don't think you can give the strictly defined word choice that some members will require for understanding within the scope of what you're talking about.

Its rough, because I think I'm sympathetic to what you're trying to say, but even I take a step back and think that you might be confusing insight for enlightenment.

In answer to your original query, I think the higher plane idea is a lot like gods and demons and all that good stuff. Meant to make a point, but not necessarily to be taken literally.

The evolution of enlightenment. Eventually things get better on their own...? I wonder.

[ate]

Well, I'm lucky then. I do have a connection with my 'higher self' through direct experience. Nothing has come my way regarding a change in the Universe. No portents, no signs. Perhaps I'm not on the guest list, or maybe my notification got lost in the post?

You get what you ask for.

How is it experience?

Exactly. You'd have to experience the thoughts yourself to know. Although you can learn enough non-experientially. For example the cycles of the galaxy and solar system and which ones humanity is entering next.

What has made it anything more than conjecture and a broad interpretation of anything and everything that would seem to fit in with this prophecy?

To you. Nothing.

To those who experience knowing it, that very subjective experience.

Saying 'The Universe is vast' doesn't mean anything at all.
MelT

Yes.


It does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw

[ate]

I don't think this will go anywhere ate. I don't think you can give the strictly defined word choice that some members will require for understanding within the scope of what you're talking about.

What you said is likely. I'll still try.

Its rough, because I think I'm sympathetic to what you're trying to say, but even I take a step back and think that you might be confusing insight for
enlightenment.

How so? I'll say that I'm sure this is not enlightenment, and I'm sure this is not insight alone, so could you fill me in one why you think it is? Thanks.

In answer to your original query, I think the higher plane idea is a lot like gods and demons and all that good stuff. Meant to make a point, but not necessarily to be taken literally.

For one. Please explain why you think gods and demons fall into this. Show me WHERE those concept fall into this. Then I will tell you where I think they fall into this. I am not aware of this being a symbolic reference for archetypical understanding, it's something else, you can say for sure.

The evolution of enlightenment. Eventually things get better on their own...? I wonder.

:?

[MelT]

>>>Exactly. You'd have to experience the thoughts yourself to know.

And what makes you think I haven't? Enlightenment contains nothing that you're talking about. Are you saying you've personally had a prophetic insight that did? If so I'd be interested to hear it.

>>Although you can learn enough non-experientially. For example the cycles of the galaxy and solar system and which ones humanity is entering next.

What are your sources? There are tens of books spouting this kind of stuff in every New Age shop in the world, full of prophecies that never happen and misinterpretations of a thousand real texts. The best lies are based in someone else's truth.

Take something like african civilisation. In an effort to prove that africans were the source of knowledge in ancient Egypt you'll see a good number of otherwise fine sites proclaiming that El Khemet, the old name for Egypt and the area around the northern Nile, means 'Land of the Black people'. Unfortunately it actually means 'the black land', with reference to the fact that the flood land around the nile IS black and very fertile. This name came through arabic and ended up in english as 'Alchemy' the ability to change one thing into something more precious, which is exactly what the Black Land did.

But, for anyone who has read one of these websites without knowing what the truth is, the name will forever mean 'Land of the Black People'. People read the Celestine Prophecies and the Da Vinci Code and believe them true because they have no other knowledge of the things they talk about. You have no basis for what you've said, all you're doing is trying to prove someone else's ideas.

I really can not buy into anything you're saying because I can't see any form of reference, truth, proof or solid basis in anything you've said. Of course, whether I or anyone else believes you is neither here nor there, I know that, this is just an open forum. But if you're going to try to appear sane and believable to the rest of the world then you have to start talking in real terms rather than coyly alluding to the idea that you know more than the rest of us.


Quote:
What has made it anything more than conjecture and a broad interpretation of anything and everything that would seem to fit in with this prophecy?


>>To you. Nothing.

Not just to me, but any other sane person who had a reasonable grasp of the way that facts and people can be manipulated. You can't make this personal and say it's just me who doesn't believe you. You can't say either that it's because of my lack of understanding or direct experience within meditation. This is just the same old same old I've heard for the last 40 odd years, that's been trotted out for as long as there've been books. Where is the evidence for what you're saying?

>>To those who experience knowing it, that very subjective experience.

Weeeelllll, I have experienced direct knowing, and a number of other people I know have too. No mention of this shift though. Not a word, not a hint. It would be a very strange experience of enlightenment or even a minor glimpse that contained the added idea that mankind is about to move to another vibratory plane, whatever that's meant to mean


Quote:
Saying 'The Universe is vast' doesn't mean anything at all.


>Yes.

>It does.

No.

It doesn't.

I watched the video as I'm a fan of Sagan. The Universe is vast, absolutely. But that still doesn't have anything to do with what you yourself are talking about. You say a shift is due. We ask for the proof and one of the things you offer is that the Universe is vast? LOL!

MelT

[MelT]

According to seers and prophets, the end of days has been coming for a very long time. How long? Read this and try to guess its date:

"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." This is one of the earliest examples of the perception of moral decay in society being interpreted as a sign of the imminent end.

Any guesses? For the answer go to this site, it contains tens upon tens of unfulfilled Doomsday prophecies - there are over 30 for the year 2000 alone.

http://www.abhota.info/

Note how, when a date comes and goes, the prophets hastily backtrack!

MelT

[ate]

Enlightenment contains nothing that you're talking about.

No.

It doesn't.

I respect your beliefs.

But that still doesn't have anything to do with what you yourself are talking about.

I am speaking about the universe.

You say a shift is due. We ask for the proof and one of the things you offer is that the Universe is vast? LOL!

You don't need to have proof to understand or see this, it happens simultaneously. It's a bit reduntant to ask for proof of your own existence. This is no different.

-DETATEA

[ate]

I'm so sad now.

I typed out a long response but it never came through.

Basically I want to help you with your understanding of "vibratory planes" and what not. I want to post something that may help you. Note, you have a very obscured and distorted perception of me based upon what I read in your post, hopefully we can fix that.

http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pages675cf.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pages898nb.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ges10116px.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ges12135ws.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ges14156gt.jpg

http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?im...ges16173je.jpg

http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/2...5436pm2je8.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/8...ges2021sm8.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3...ges2223dz2.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6774/pages2425qs6.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1...ges2627hc2.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3...ges2829tw8.jpg

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9...ges3031oy6.jpg


Tell me if those all came out.

RIP long post that I made. :*(

[MelT]

quote: I'm so sad now.

I typed out a long response but it never came through.

I hate it when that happens too...

quote: Basically I want to help you with your understanding of "vibratory planes" and what not.

LOL, thanks, I don't need any. I'm happy with my comprehension of much of todays QM, string theory, etc. That there can be other dimensions is hardly questionable anymore, I agree that there are. Whether or not any are inhabited is down to purely personal opinion, but...

>>I want to post something that may help you. Note, you have a very obscured and distorted perception of me based upon what I read in your post, hopefully we can fix that.

Well, unfortunately what you've sent hasn't changed my perceptions, it's made them worse (though I have no doubt for a second that you're not a nice person). You still come across as somebody selling Christian ideas whilst trying to seem as though you're asking for a debate on the validity of jesus' so-called prophecy.

But really I've got to say that what lets your whole argument down is your rebuttals themselves. You try to write in a quasi-enlightened way and hint at ancient world knowledge - that you're trying to hi-jack into saying whatever you want. This by you is a cracker example :

"You don't need to have proof to understand or see this, it happens simultaneously. It's a bit reduntant to ask for proof of your own existence. This is no different."

You can't talk the talk Ate, drop it. You don't know the right things to say and how you're trying to sound just doesn't work. This is a troll for another jesus thread, not a debate.

Do your reply by all means, I'm outta here. I don't want this thread to be active any longer than it has to be....

Bye
MelT