The Chicken Killers!!!

[GHoSToKeR]

i'll rephrase that.. it's not ok to kill anything sentient..

sen·tient
adj.

1. Having sense perception; conscious: â??The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stageâ?� (T.E. Lawrence).
2. Experiencing sensation or feeling

[Euphoric]

from peta's faq..

There is currently no reason to believe that plants experience pain, devoid as they are of central nervous systems, nerve endings, and brains. It is theorized that the main reason animals have the ability to experience pain is as a form of self-protection. If you touch something that hurts and could possibly injure you, you will learn from the pain it produces to leave it alone in the future. Since plants cannot locomote and do not have the need to learn to avoid certain things, this sensation would be superfluous.

[Imotep]

regarding fish feeling pain-i have not yet heard of any evidence from anyone other than animal rights groups. just because he has a white coat doesnt mean he is correct. as an example i take monsanto scientists.
to convince me, i need to hear it from other sources. not saying its not true, but when only one group is claiming something, only fool rush in.
i fish whenever i can spare time from the garden (forest). i mainly fish for meat, but sport does definateley come into it. its fun to catch a mighty big flathead and release it if its a big old breeder.
saying that i have read a lot of opinions on this issue, both from highly motivated sources.
i dont beleive fish feel pain the same way. they feel it as a trigger for flight or fight responses.
but if it turns out they do feel pain, are the insects next? good luck with that one.

meat based diets from what i have learned are generally unhealthy for westerners. lots of peoples on earth ate nearly exclusive meat diets, but their lifestlyes had evolved with the diet, and the excercise required to procure the feed compensated.

environmentaly meat is a highly inefficient way to "manufacture" protein. the water, land and other resources required means the earths carrying capacity is greatly reduced, and issues like starving 3rd world are compounded.

vegetarianism is the only way the human race will survive poputation blow-out, if indeed the war-famine-disease complex doesnt get us first.

there was an earlier comment about organics only being pesticide free if grown in controlled environments. this certainly helps but is far from gospel.
bio-diversity the the key with agriculture and diet.
remember giant forests grow themselves. they are not fed. they are not watered. seeds are not collected and germinated and planted.

the incorporation of natural cycles and systems is essential in agriculture.
plants have their own immune system. if it is healthy, the plant will not succumb to pest and disease attack. when they are sprayed, it has been noted (by various sources i add hehe) that the production of immunity boosting compounds is reduced.
these are the compounds our own immune system needs to be fed to maintain it.
ever noticed the same companies that make our food sick with chemicals are the same ones that then give us pharmaceuticals to "cure" our ills?

you are what you eat. if you eat chemical dependent food, chances are you will become chemically dependent.
this cycle is easily broken by removing, particulary chlorine based pesticides and herbicides. hormones in animal feed cannot help either.

and heres some food for though;
what other mammal ingests milk after infacy?
what other mammal ingests the milk of other species after infancy?

[Euphoric]

excellent post, imotep.
fish have similar nervous systems as all mammals. yes it hurts.

Dr. Sylvia Earle, one of the world's leading marine biologists, said, "I never eat anyone I know personally. I wouldn't deliberately eat a grouper any more than I'd eat a cocker spaniel. They're so good-natured, so curious. You know, fish are sensitive, they have personalities, they hurt when they're wounded."

"[I]t has been shown that fish (like other vertebrate animals, including humans) have a highly developed system that may help protect them from severe pain--pain which could endanger their lives if they were seriously handicapped by it following some injury to their bodies, such as might be inflicted by a large predator. This system releases natural opiate-like substances (enkephalins and endorphins) once an animal is injured. ... The presence of this pain-dampening opiate system implies that there must be some capacity to experience pain, otherwise there would be little point in animals having evolved such a system in the first place. ..." --- Fox, Michael W., D.V.M., Ph.D., "Do Fish Have Feelings?," The Animals' Agenda, July/August 1987, pp. 24-29.



"Fish cry out in both pain and fear. According to marine biologist Michael Fine, most sound-producing fishes 'vocalize' when prodded, held or chased. In experiments by William Tavolga, toadfish grunted when electrically shocked. What's more, they soon came to grunt at the mere sight of an electrode."

-- Dunayer, Joan, "Fish: Sensitivity Beyond the Captor's Grasp," The Animals' Agenda, July/August 1991, pp. 12-18.

[Euphoric]

sorry. i really enjoyed reading your points on dairy consumption, imotep. i didnt mean to only focus on the negatives there

[Imotep]

no worries mate. the fish pain thing is a curious one ive been following for awhile. its strange to not be on the "green" side of a debate for a change lol.
new territory for me.i live to be proved wrong.

yeah the dairy thing stumped me when i thought about it.

[Lord M.A.H]

Bro speaks the truth, as does sawleaf, and i have a tendancy to agree.
Bugger and damnation, but pics and stories don't make a shitload of diff to me.
meat is meat, and no amount of protests or veggies are going to change the way it gets from a to b, or the manner in how it gets there. it is not financially viable to treat meat humanely.
Now I am against animal cruelty myself and would never perpetuate it, but i can't stop others, no matter what you say. it will always be and there's nothing you can do.
The cruelest, most 'inhumane' creature on this earth is the human, and always wil be.
at least animals only kill for food, and not sport.

[Imotep]

mate its not finacially viable to treat humans humaneley.
you sound like a raging economic rationalist.

[GHoSToKeR]

it is not financially viable to treat meat humanely.

if you cant treat it humanely, then dont eat it. its that simple.

[GHoSToKeR]

ooooh... and like imotep said, its not 'financially viable' to treat humans humanely either, but we dont mind spendin the money on doing it.. so whats the difference?