The Chicken Killers!!!

[Bro DZ]

no seriously, if there where more people that gave a damn, animals wouldent be treated so inhumanely.

Unfortunately society as we know it could not exist without such cruelty. If you want nothing to do with it, become a recluse like some members of this board talk about. Otherwise... go with the flow

and ghost, come on man, quit trying to discourage people. If i didnt wanna listen to anything at all I wouldent be trying to communicate with my peers. I ahve read and agreed with plenty of stuff written here over the last few months =oP

positivity is supposedly the key to happiness

[Lulu]

I agree with the 'positivity is the key to happiness' comment, that's why it doesn't make sense for you to say we can't change things.
Even when you only do something as small as explaining to the woman at table 6 why veal isn't on the menu. Maybe she hadn't known before that.... maybe she won't feel so good bout eating it again.

Do not overlook tiny good actions, thinking they are of no benefit;
even tiny drops of water in the end will fill a huge vessel.

Do not overlook negative actions merely because they are small;
however small a spark may be,
it can burn down a haystack as big as a mountain

[Bro DZ]

however small a spark may be,
it can burn down a haystack as big as a mountain[/I]

now that would be an awesome bonfire

[sawleaf]

I have to agree with BroDZ. Meat has been in the human diet for thousands of years. It's cool if you feel like cutting meat out of your diet, but unfortunately I don't think it's going to save a single animal from slaughter. Millions of people eat meat everyday, yes it's cruel, but it is a necessity in our society.

[maryjanemama]

Yep, Sawleaf, you're right, they're not going to stop killing cows just because some of us don't eat them. In fact, I could give 2 shits about cows...I'm a veggie strictly for my own vanity, it's easier for me to maintain my weight as a vegetarian. And I know this sounds terrible, but cows are possibly the STUPIDEST creatures that roam this Earth. Not that they deserve to be slaughtered or anything...but I don't consider them when I pass on a steak, I consider my ass in a parit of jeans.

[Lulu]

But in order to feed all these animals huge areas of land and forests are cleared. There is more energy put into producing a pound of meat than a pound of grain, animals need more water then crops and a pound of grain will feed more people.
Crops can be rotated to give back to the earth (Hemp being an ideal one).

You don't think that small actions can ripple out, and with time create change?

[sawleaf]

I know Lulu, but what can we do? Not much really. We can't just stop the meat buisness one day and put everyone on grain diets. MJM, thinking of your ass in a pair of jeans makes me hungry. Maybe I will cook up a steak now.

[RESiNATE]

Wow, I really stirred up a hornets nest of discussion, didn't I?
lol

Everything that everyone has said makes sense, alot of good arguements here. Thanks for the link GHoST - I looked at the blurb, but refrained from watching the vid - mainly because I know mostly what goes on, and don't need tooo see it in graphic detail. Also, I would say that selective images are used to bolster an opinion of one side of the arguement - much in the same way that religious text is selectively used to condemn one order of people against the other.
Or, one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter.

We are a omniverous (is that the right term?) being - fact.
That some choose to abstain from eating meat, is an admirable testament to that person's conviction, and should only be applauded.
I would never presume to say that a vegetarian is any better or worse than I.

It is not the 'cultivation' of animal foodstuffs that (necessarily) concern me, but more to do with the treatment of those creatures that are breed for our 'survival'.
An interesting and good point made on that website (meetyourmeat), was this:

"The purpose of factory farms is to produce the most meat, milk, and eggs using the least amount of space, time, and money. The animals suffer the consequences of these shortcuts. They are never allowed to do anything that is natural to themâ??they are never able to feel the grass beneath their feet, the sun on their faces, or fresh air."

My concern is that greed for monetary wealth, has clouded our morality towards those beasts that make our lives sustainable. Money seems to be prevalent in our view of life - we are more concerned about how much money is accruable, rather than the ramifications of our actions.
Sure, I like eating meat, I make no apologies for that - but I admit that I would much rather see these animals treated with the respect that they are due.
And that is the real issue here - respect, or rather the lack thereof.

I have lived my life with the philosophy that all of us have a right to be here. All of us has a role to play in the 'great game of life' - a roadsweeper is no less of a person than a corporate mogul, nor does any one man stand above the next man.
There is, of course, a flaw to this arguement.
Some people exhibit themselves in such a way that they must forfiet their right to be viewed as equal to the rest of us (rapists, murderers, etc), and those people must be ejected from society - they have no place here in the land of equality.
We are, due to our 'supreme intelligence', the guardians of this beautiful eutopia that we call Earth...unfortunately, we seem to have lost sight of this fact, as greed and selfishness slowly consumes us all.

I wonder what an alien race would think of our 'guardianship', were they to view us from above?
Silly question, I know, but we are the ones that are preventing our step to the next level of consciousness...and all because of tiny bits of paper and metal, that we seem so eager to colect - at any cost - even if that cost is ultimate destruction...ie, if I can't have it, then no one will!
It is a typical human trait that sets us apart from every other living cell on this planet - and quite frankly, it disgusts the hell out of me, and I'm ashamed to be associated with such.

But I, as we all are, are the product of continual brainwashing.
From an early age, we are groomed into being possessive, materialistic, and greedy. Our schooling teaches us, our religions tell us, and as time passes our compassion is slowly bred out of us.
I'm not a hippy-tree-hugging-fanatic, but I do understand (at least I like to think that I do) the natural order of things. I respect everything that I come into contact with (barring the majority of the human race), and like to think that I see the bigger picture.
We only have to look out of our windows, to see that our greed is slowly destroying the very thing that gives us this wonderful PRIVELEDGE of being here.

Rather than think about moderation in our needs, we pillage and ravage this planet for our own needs for the 'here and now', with little or no thought to the consequences of our actions - or at least, not until it's too late (as is often the case).
Global warming, climate change, dwindling resources, and a decaying world - are all the product of our immediate greed. We have ignored the warning that Mother Nature sends us, maybe in the hope that we can avert the disaster before it happens - too late, I'm afraid.

The writing has been on the wall for many many years now, but we have chosen to blind ourselves to the obvious.

Well, just desserts, init!

I only pity the future generations, how ever few are left.

Res...

[Lulu]

I'm not saying every person in the world needs to stop eating meat or that we should be all eating grain diets. I'm vegetarian because that's what I'm confortable with.
Yes when we evolved and grew as a race we ate meat and fresh produce, but we sure weren't eating it everyday, 7 days a week for our entire lives.
Fastfood is generally animal in origin but mass produced and not of a high quality. People are eating and feeding their children crap they don't need, and this horrific death machine is churning away in the background.
People are cooking less and less and buying more convenience foods. I honestly think people need to be rethink.
Kids today will be more prone to kidney and heart problems because of the amount of sodium and saturated fat in their diets. And I dunno whether you've noticed it but there's a lot more kids around with weight issues then when I was at school.
JMHO

[Lulu]

Great post btw Res