Lighting Help?

[dazzerx2000]

Hi everyone,

First of all I would just like to say what a nice forum im new to the game and am really surprised to see that laws are not keeping free discussion down. This will be my first grow and I have pretty much read most of the good books/dvdâ??s ect around and have everything down to a tee. What I need help with is lighting arrangements as I simply donâ??t have any experience in this area so could those that know lend me there knowledge.

Im currently thinking of purchasing my grow lights when I saw an advertisement for â??envirolite!â?� they are priced at similar or more than normal HIDâ??s and want to know if there any good, I have read numerous reports regarding these lights but still have been unable to come to a conclusion below I have listed some setups that I had in mind please tell me what you think.

1. Envirolite large reflector with 6x 200watt lights veg and 6x200 watts bloom I will use the different bulbs for there purposes e.g grow extensively on the veging bulbs and bloom extensively on the bloom.


2. 1x 600watt HID dual ballast with a 600watt Metal halide for Vegging and a 600watt HPS for bloom used as explained in setup one.

Although setup one would cost allot more that setup two im leaning to using it as I need to save on electric as much as possible and the low heat will make up for any mistakes I make with a noob at ventilation, but at the same time want to have the best bud production as possible I have read that the enviroliteâ??s bulbs have problems penetrating dense canopyâ??s but I was thinking on hanging two bulbs vertically in between the plants when they are in there blooming stages, as the lamp produces no heat this should work very well what do you think?

Also im having problems finding information on how many lumens just one 200watt envirolite lamp can produce and just how many watts they burn. How many plants could I successfully grow under a setup suck as number one? Or should I go with the tried and tested HIDâ??s. Thank you for any help received.

dazzerx2000 Reviewed by dazzerx2000 on 09-02-2006. Lighting Help? Hi everyone, First of all I would just like to say what a nice forum im new to the game and am really surprised to see that laws are not keeping free discussion down. This will be my first grow and I have pretty much read most of the good books/dvdâ??s ect around and have everything down to a tee. What I need help with is lighting arrangements as I simply donâ??t have any experience in this area so could those that know lend me there knowledge. Im currently thinking of purchasing my Rating: 5

[dazzerx2000]

Please any one??? i know i asked a few questions but need to know to avoid wasting money....

[jamstigator]

Go with the MW and the HPS plan. Or, if money is a factor, just use cheap CFLs for veg, and HPS for bloom, and forget swapping bulbs on the ballast. That way you can have stuff vegging while you have other stuff flowering.

And those big Envirolights and other large CFLs do generate a fair amount of heat. If you touch them, they don't feel incredibly hot (compared to an HPS bulb) but that's partly because A) the CFLs don't put out nearly as much light; and B) those gigantic CFL bulbs have a much larger surface area from which to radiate their heat. When you confine them in a small space, you will see that the amount of heat they generate is far from negligible.

I believe the 200 watt envirolites radiate around 20k lumens, and they do consume 200 watts. So three of those would just barely exceed the light generation of one 400 watt Hortilux bulb, and it'd probably take four or five of them to equal a decent 600 watt bulb. Consider your bulb costs here too. Does it cost a more to replace four or five 200 watt envirolights than it does to replace one 600 watt HPS bulb? Heh, yes it does, by a lot.

Just get some 6500k el cheapo CFLs for veg; they work just fine, they're cheap, they're easy to get just about anywhere, and they're not inordinately huge. And get a 600 watt HPS ballast for your flowering. If you have the money, get it with a cooltube with an internal reflector, and with a digital ballast. I think this is probably the most efficient, effective and cost-conscious route for ya.

[dazzerx2000]

Thanx for the info jamstigator,

Im thinking of useing a whole bedroom for this planned setup as im not sure what size the attic will be so there might not be as much head room there as needed after hanging the lights ect. Although this is my first grow i was thinking about going all out and constructing my own fill and drain hydro set from inexpensive parts, I mean there not that complicated when you think about them and after water cooling my home PC it carnt be much harder than that, the only problem with this setup is that i will have to raise the plants and im not sure how hight the sealing will be in my designated room.

i was thinking of buying a small clone hatchery that can hold around 10-20 plants or something and have that with a mother plant in a clock room or small cupbard, clone in that then transport the clones to the hydro set, veg and bloom them all together in the same room just change the bulbs depending on what stage there in i have around £1500 to spend on everything from ventilation/nutrients/parts/lights ect and want to end up with about 1.5-2kg. Every crop e.g. 3-4 months

The only reason why i wanted to use envirolites is because of the electric bill. I already run allot of electricles in my flat now and will be moving to a house where ill have even more consumerables, i rougthly spend in this flat around £20 every 3 weeks on electricity and thats for just playing my computers and having a server class pc running 24/7 helping the sharing comunity . How many plants could i get under one 600watt HPS?. Thank you.

[jamstigator]

I wouldn't expect 1.5-2 kilos from a 600 watt HPS, no matter what you do. The 'holy grail' of growing is 1 gram/watt, and to achieve that requires perfection in every aspect and phase of the grow. I'd look for 0.5 grams/watt, and consider anything beyond that a bonus. That way you won't end up being disappointed when you don't achieve the holy grail. So, that'd be more like 300 grams or 1/3 of a kilo, around there, 10-12 ounces per cycle. I have never achieved 1 gram/watt myself, though I am getting closer, and often get around a pound/crop now.

If you keep some plants vegging while you are flowering, then as soon as you're done flowering you can throw already-vegged plants in there and harvest approximately once every two months, and increase your yield/time that way.

There is no set amount of plants, really. You could grow a dozen little plants (flower early after cloning/rooting), or you could grow 2 or 3 bigger plants that you veg longer. If your laws punish you based on the number of plants (if you're caught), then growing just a few large plants might be a better idea than a bunch of little plants...just in case.

Envirolites might seem to save you money, but to get the same amount of lumens, you'd need to use more of them, and they'd then take MORE power than an HPS. Your yield goals are hefty, so I'd highly suggest an HPS: more lumens, and bigger yield, for the power used.

You could build a cabinet rather than dedicating an entire room too. Cabinets do have some advantages over rooms: they're portable (if you put casters on the bottom), you can saw and cut them all to hell and it does no harm to your home, stealth, and so on. I love cabinets myself, and have zero regrets going that route. Mine is also in my attic, which has a sloping ceiling.

Here's a pic of my flowering cabinet, with three plants in it, and another pic of the same cab after harvest (I use that cab for drying too). Those plants were vegged too long and grew all out of control during flowering. Anyway, cabinets are a decent alternative to dedicating an entire room, so figured I'd mention it in case you hadn't considered that possibility. Somewhat stealthier too; I've had people in the same room, walk right by that cabinet, and never suspect a thing.

[dazzerx2000]

jamstigator thats a great idea i didnt consider that method your setup looks really good, i was always just thinking of quantity rather than other factors. My budget is £1500 which is around $3000 give or take so i could easily get 2x 600watt setups i never even dreamed of getting 1.5-2k with just the one 600watt setup lol maybe with three yeh. I think i need to sit down and have a re-think on what im prepared to do in respects to using a whole room or your cabinet method, as i dont care what anyone says but a locked bedroom door looks suspicious to me the problems with the electric that will be used will just have to lived with its un-avoidable, isnt the world a shit palce where you can go to jail for growing god dam plants

Im leaning toward splitting one area into two if i dont use cuboards and doing what you said vegging in one and blooming in another that way i could make better use of my equipment and time. Ill post back with some room deminsions as soon as i know them, it could be a week from now but theres issues on ventilation/security that i need to clear up. Its a shame the envirolites just carnt cut it they sounded really good but they just havent come allong enougth. Thanxs for the info thou and could you reccomend any hydroponic books that specialise mostly in the construction of the various systems available on the market or at least diagrams! as i ve downloaded a few but there not exactly what im after and most on ebay are geared around just stating the advantages and disadvantages......oh well off to google.

[jamstigator]

Can't help ya with hydroponic stuff. I like soil! Hydro seems like more of a pain in the ass to me, and if you screw up the nutes, bam, you might have to kiss the grow goodbye. Soil is very forgiving, hard to screw up, and you rarely have to take ph readings or ppm readings or do much of anything fancy. I like simplicity.

[dazzerx2000]

Hi whatâ??s everyoneâ??s verdict on digital ballasts I have been reading up on these but more questions have grown in my mind than answers I have learned the following about them:

1. Unlike as previously believed they do not cause your bulbs to emit more light than the same bulb used in a magnetic ballast if anything itâ??s a few lumens short?
2. They will allow your bulb to last longer by providing a clean consistent energy source
3. They tend to last longer than coil based ballasts

Could anyone confirm this for me and is there anything I missed? On one forum a person said that they I emit RF signalling that COULD possibly cause them to be detected by who knows maybe the police is this just fiction?

Im currently thinking of buying this:

http://www.theonlineelectricalwholes...88_292&pid=275

Also if I want to use a MH bulb in this thing can I just screw it in and be good to go as im not sure if its even worth purchasing some envirolites for vegetative growth any more might just stick with two of these babies. As per usual thank you for any input provided......:rasta:

[jamstigator]

My ballast is a Lumatek digital ballast, and it's been working great. I've seen those lights you linked there. The price is definitely right. But they look like they might be tough to cool. Get one and let us know how it works out.

Oh, as regards the RF signal, I think most or all of them use shielded cables now. They started shielding the cables, not because the police could detect them, but because they were interfering with cable and satellite. I doubt any of them have that problem anymore.

The Grolux lamp that comes with that light says it has added blue spectrum light, and they refer to it is 'dual spectrum'. I've never tried one of those, but maybe that and a few CFLs would work okay for veg, then use that same lamp to flower too.

Pretty good prices at that place! I bookmarked it.

[dazzerx2000]

thanx jamstigator your my one stop source of info here really man i appritiiate the feedback....peace :thumbsup: