For all you non-believers....

[IamTheWalrus]

I was just wondering why some people prefer to believe in nothing than believe in God. no im not saying everyone that does not believe in god, believes in nothing im just wondering how you think? Im trying to understand how people believe god does not exist and that our entire universe came from nothing(sorrry gas and dust). Im not looking for an arguement just a good conversation.

and this is my first post on this forum so i guess nice to meet you all :thumbsup:

IamTheWalrus Reviewed by IamTheWalrus on 08-09-2006. For all you non-believers.... I was just wondering why some people prefer to believe in nothing than believe in God. no im not saying everyone that does not believe in god, believes in nothing im just wondering how you think? Im trying to understand how people believe god does not exist and that our entire universe came from nothing(sorrry gas and dust). Im not looking for an arguement just a good conversation. and this is my first post on this forum so i guess nice to meet you all :thumbsup: Rating: 5

[Nochowderforyou]

Im not trying to push anything on anyone i just wanted an interesting conversation, just because i believe in god does not mean im a fan of organized religion and i definitly dont go to church and the universe is god thing is an interesting point but if you put it that way couldnt you just reverse it?and its the exact same? w.e bit to confusing for me. Basically this whole conversation I just wanted to know what you guys believe in and im finding out im not trying to bash what you guys think and hopefully you guys will respect my belief of god(or a creator).

You're right. I should have never said all believers. I just meant the extreme ones. The ones who yell walking down the road with a 15ft tall cross trying to change the world and how we all think.

But I see how you're viewing the universe, and I just misunderstood what you were asking. :rasta:

[afghooey]

That's the catch...'intelligence'. If something exists, like carbon, usually a friggin' lot of it exists. So why would intelligence be exclusive to us? And if we're its pinnacle that would really lean towards the pathetic. Wouldn't it?

But even if the Universe was unintelligent before, and nothing but matter and physics, this one has gained intelligence. --and we're it. ...lol heavy maaan, heavy. Dig those ramifications. Older Universes nurturing a baby universe. We're it's cosmic braincells forming!...hehe Oh I crack myself up sometimes. Sorry about that

Now, when I say 'intelligence', I don't necessarily mean the dictionary definition of intelligence -- but our language is pretty limiting, so, for lack of a better word, we'll assume that this intelligence is a defining attribute of humans.

When I say I think that the universe is intelligent, I mean everything in the universe, non-exclusively. Quarks, atoms, molecules, planets, mountains, rocks, rivers, carbon, gasses, light, nuclear energy, etc. etc. etc. No, I'm not trying to anthropomorphise the universe.. more like the other way around, really. I think most people have the misconception that 'intelligence' is what separates humans from this 'dumb' universe that we're living in.

If you take a step back, and look at things objectively, you begin to see that we're not seperate at all. Is our outside environment -- the air we breathe, the gravity that holds us to the earth, the water we drink, the food we consume, the sunlight that shines down on us -- is it any less vital to our existance than the organs and cells inside of our bodies? We weren't brought in to this universe. We came out of it. Therefore, I think it's logical that we ourselves, and our intelligence (if we indeed have any), are an expression of the universe.

In my mind, that gives us two possibilities:

The universe itself is an intelligent entity, just as we are.
Or:
We're really unintelligent, purely mechanical objects in an unintelligent, purely mechanical universe.

In my humble opinion, if the latter is true, we may as well all commit suicide.

[graymatter]

I don't know how you'd describe an intelligent universe. I'm sure physicists and astronomers do a good job of discerning random events from organized and related ones.

But isn't intelligence an attribute human beings created to classify just about anything?

[Hamlet]

The universe itself is an intelligent entity, just as we are.
Or:
We're really unintelligent, purely mechanical objects in an unintelligent, purely mechanical universe.

In my humble opinion, if the latter is true, we may as well all commit suicide.

I heard a scientist once talking along those lines about the 'illusion of Consciousness'. I have a lot of trouble getting my head around that one. I mean, in a way it could be reasonable I suppose, cause and effect n' such...but its just so damned counterintuitive. Cogito, ergo sum dammit! I exist! And I think I'm going to be stubborn about that point until the day I don't exist.....lol

[pauljb07]

I believe in God.

True there is no evidence to prove that there is a God to people, but when you truely truely believe that God exists, created the universe, and worship him as it was intended, then there is an evidence that you can feel but you can't explain it. (This is while being completely sober btw lol)


That being said, "religion" is embarassing.

The kinda crap you see on TV and people killing other people in the name of God is what turns people away from the whole idea of Creationism.

God can also be a very loose term, pretty much anything can become a God to you. A pro football player worships the sport, thats his idol/God.

Alot of religious people believe in God, but they just go through the motions of church and don't act like God would want them too. (How would God want you to act? Well that depends on which "God" you are trying to be like.)

If you look through the Bible, there is never a point where Jesus Christ (believed to be the son of God in christianity) forced religion on anyone. Nor did he tell you to kill anyone, although in the Kuran (If your Islamic) it does state to destroy all infidels or people who are not like them, wierd eh? He (Jesus Christ) just accepted them for who they were, ussually average or poor people and showed them kindness and such.



anyway....I'm not forcing anything on anyone, but everyone was saying what they believe so I decided to state mine.

People always get so defensive while talking about all of this....wonder why?


Oh yeah and on a completely (Random) different note....People picture Jesus as the skinny white guy with a beard.
Jesus was from the Middle East and he was a carpenter, so he was probably brown and pretty built..... Beard...idk?

Thanks for listening everyone.

Some of your views are actually very interesting and I enjoy reading them.:thumbsup:

[Captain Hanks]

One of the laws of science is that nothing can spawn from nothing! They're has to be a creator. Some say the universe allways was. If so, explain this. Laws in science say that heat seeks out cold. If you put a cold glass of water next to a hot glass of water and seal them in a box, the hot glass will seek out the cold and when opend later they will be at the same temperature. Now if the universe allways has been, then how come different sections have a different temperature then others. Therefore it was created and had a beggining. We live in a digital world. A famous scientist did an experiment a while back, and when he found the outcome he killed himself. He took a string and cut it in half, and he kept doing it over and over again making it smaller and smaller. Now there was a certain measurement that he was able to get down to (can't remember the measurement) where if he cut it any more it would explode into millions of peices and suround our universe! We live in a 3 dimesional world when our math has showed us there are at least 7 other dimensions... :stoned:

[IamTheWalrus]

My problem has always been if god created all of what we know how was god created, obviously the human mind will never know.....

[jamstigator]

I don't believe in nothing, or God. I'm awaiting evidence. If there's a God out there, great, but nobody's proven it, and nobody *can* prove there isn't one (since you can't prove a negative). So, I'm still patiently hoping someone can and will prove there is a God, but I'm not going to *assume* there is one. (You know what they say about assuming.)

I have a feeling we're just the product of random chance on the third planet orbiting an unremarkable star in an unremarkable galaxy which is just one of millions and millions of other galaxies in the universe. But who knows.

[Hamlet]

Does it really matter what I believe? Believing doesn't change the facts. I always did find it annoying that the prerequisit for escaping eternal damnation was believing in a bunch of very improbable fables though. Ya gotta figure, if there was a God (one that's supposed to be 'good'), why would he set it up that way? Would he really want his followers to be the stupid ones who were too chickenshit to think for themselves? After all he's the one who's got to hang around with them for eternity. Geez, after a few thousand years of hearing Pat Robertson and Jerry Faldwell whine I would think he would be ready for some more interesting company. I would be pulling Mark Twain and Voltaire out of Hell just for someone interesting to talk to....lol

But as far as 'belief' goes. I see no problem suspecting that there might possibly be some superior intelligence behind it all. But to buy into some mean old man with a long white beard on a throne someplace takes a twist of reason that most rational people would have a lot of trouble with unless you've been brainwashed since birth.

Oh, and 'Hi Walrus!'...choo choo ka choo!