For all you non-believers....

[graymatter]

I don't. Who needs unquestionable authority? It's never worked too well here on earth (Hitler and Stalin anybody?), so I can't imagine it would work much better on a cosmic scale.

We don't need an infinitely powerful dictator of the whole universe, who writes all the rules and expects everybody to abide by them unquestioningly, when we can make our own rules with this democracy thing we invented. We need to take our societies into our own hands and run them according to our own reason and common sense, instead of relinquishing power to an invisible friend we can't even detect. This "higher power" superstition is nonsense and if any semblance of popular rule is going to ever exist, we need to stamp it out and make our own ethics for ourselves.

I don't need he/her/it, either... but what are we suppose to do, burn all sacred texts, starve the lions and then feed believers to them? I wish we lived in a secular world, ruled by a populace that doesn't tether itself to myths and fables. But the majority of people do believe some variations of them.

[Nochowderforyou]

I think you believers should just mind your own business and let us operate our daily lives the way that we want. Stop trying to change the world and make it 1 dimensional. Not everyone is like you, and not all of us choose to operate under a set of rules and guidelines.

I'm a freemind, a freethinker. I think what I want, I do what I feel is right, and I don't let people walk all over me, telling me I'm wrong.

If you go to church, keep it where it is wanted.

[IamTheWalrus]

Im not trying to push anything on anyone i just wanted an interesting conversation, just because i believe in god does not mean im a fan of organized religion and i definitly dont go to church and the universe is god thing is an interesting point but if you put it that way couldnt you just reverse it?and its the exact same? w.e bit to confusing for me. Basically this whole conversation I just wanted to know what you guys believe in and im finding out im not trying to bash what you guys think and hopefully you guys will respect my belief of god(or a creator).

[Not Enough Herb]

all i know is there is some other power out there. and we will all see it when are time has ended. but that is just the beginning.

later

[afghooey]

That's the catch...'intelligence'. If something exists, like carbon, usually a friggin' lot of it exists. So why would intelligence be exclusive to us? And if we're its pinnacle that would really lean towards the pathetic. Wouldn't it?

But even if the Universe was unintelligent before, and nothing but matter and physics, this one has gained intelligence. --and we're it. ...lol heavy maaan, heavy. Dig those ramifications. Older Universes nurturing a baby universe. We're it's cosmic braincells forming!...hehe Oh I crack myself up sometimes. Sorry about that

Now, when I say 'intelligence', I don't necessarily mean the dictionary definition of intelligence -- but our language is pretty limiting, so, for lack of a better word, we'll assume that this intelligence is a defining attribute of humans.

When I say I think that the universe is intelligent, I mean everything in the universe, non-exclusively. Quarks, atoms, molecules, planets, mountains, rocks, rivers, carbon, gasses, light, nuclear energy, etc. etc. etc. No, I'm not trying to anthropomorphise the universe.. more like the other way around, really. I think most people have the misconception that 'intelligence' is what separates humans from this 'dumb' universe that we're living in.

If you take a step back, and look at things objectively, you begin to see that we're not seperate at all. Is our outside environment -- the air we breathe, the gravity that holds us to the earth, the water we drink, the food we consume, the sunlight that shines down on us -- is it any less vital to our existance than the organs and cells inside of our bodies? We weren't brought in to this universe. We came out of it. Therefore, I think it's logical that we ourselves, and our intelligence (if we indeed have any), are an expression of the universe.

In my mind, that gives us two possibilities:

The universe itself is an intelligent entity, just as we are.
Or:
We're really unintelligent, purely mechanical objects in an unintelligent, purely mechanical universe.

In my humble opinion, if the latter is true, we may as well all commit suicide.

[Nochowderforyou]

Im not trying to push anything on anyone i just wanted an interesting conversation, just because i believe in god does not mean im a fan of organized religion and i definitly dont go to church and the universe is god thing is an interesting point but if you put it that way couldnt you just reverse it?and its the exact same? w.e bit to confusing for me. Basically this whole conversation I just wanted to know what you guys believe in and im finding out im not trying to bash what you guys think and hopefully you guys will respect my belief of god(or a creator).

You're right. I should have never said all believers. I just meant the extreme ones. The ones who yell walking down the road with a 15ft tall cross trying to change the world and how we all think.

But I see how you're viewing the universe, and I just misunderstood what you were asking. :rasta:

[Hamlet]

The universe itself is an intelligent entity, just as we are.
Or:
We're really unintelligent, purely mechanical objects in an unintelligent, purely mechanical universe.

In my humble opinion, if the latter is true, we may as well all commit suicide.

I heard a scientist once talking along those lines about the 'illusion of Consciousness'. I have a lot of trouble getting my head around that one. I mean, in a way it could be reasonable I suppose, cause and effect n' such...but its just so damned counterintuitive. Cogito, ergo sum dammit! I exist! And I think I'm going to be stubborn about that point until the day I don't exist.....lol

[graymatter]

I don't know how you'd describe an intelligent universe. I'm sure physicists and astronomers do a good job of discerning random events from organized and related ones.

But isn't intelligence an attribute human beings created to classify just about anything?

[pauljb07]

I believe in God.

True there is no evidence to prove that there is a God to people, but when you truely truely believe that God exists, created the universe, and worship him as it was intended, then there is an evidence that you can feel but you can't explain it. (This is while being completely sober btw lol)


That being said, "religion" is embarassing.

The kinda crap you see on TV and people killing other people in the name of God is what turns people away from the whole idea of Creationism.

God can also be a very loose term, pretty much anything can become a God to you. A pro football player worships the sport, thats his idol/God.

Alot of religious people believe in God, but they just go through the motions of church and don't act like God would want them too. (How would God want you to act? Well that depends on which "God" you are trying to be like.)

If you look through the Bible, there is never a point where Jesus Christ (believed to be the son of God in christianity) forced religion on anyone. Nor did he tell you to kill anyone, although in the Kuran (If your Islamic) it does state to destroy all infidels or people who are not like them, wierd eh? He (Jesus Christ) just accepted them for who they were, ussually average or poor people and showed them kindness and such.



anyway....I'm not forcing anything on anyone, but everyone was saying what they believe so I decided to state mine.

People always get so defensive while talking about all of this....wonder why?


Oh yeah and on a completely (Random) different note....People picture Jesus as the skinny white guy with a beard.
Jesus was from the Middle East and he was a carpenter, so he was probably brown and pretty built..... Beard...idk?

Thanks for listening everyone.

Some of your views are actually very interesting and I enjoy reading them.:thumbsup:

[mrdevious]

although in the Kuran (Quran or Koran actually) (If your Islamic) it does state to destroy all infidels or people who are not like them

I've never heard about anything like this... Could you give me a source showing me this?