American Indians Confront Bikers

[psychocat]

Psychocat do you not realize that Pigsnout made that comment because of your lie about ethnic cleansing on a level not seen since the Middle Ages? Quit warping what everyone else says and telling them not to go off topic when they are giving a relevant arguement to your lies.

So rather than face the issue at hand you choose to nitpick over the debateable question of wether the biggest act of genocide was carried out against the American indiginous population or the Jews.
Tell me how that redresses the balance?
Or for that matter how pointing to the crimes of another somehow lets America off the hook as far as modern day treatment of the Indians is concerned??
Get real man.

Thats like saying yeah but Hitler picked on gipsies so it's ok for us to discriminate against the French????? WTF,it doesn't work that way does it.

Forget the jews for one minute and realise that the "CURRENT TREATMENT" of American natives is wrong !!!

[LegallyBlind]

So rather than face the issue at hand you choose to nitpick over the debateable question of wether the biggest act of genocide was carried out against the American indiginous population or the Jews.
Tell me how that redresses the balance?
Or for that matter how pointing to the crimes of another somehow lets America off the hook as far as modern day treatment of the Indians is concerned??
Get real man.

Thats like saying yeah but Hitler picked on gipsies so it's ok for us to discriminate against the French????? WTF,it doesn't work that way does it.

Forget the jews for one minute and realise that the "CURRENT TREATMENT" of American natives is wrong !!!

No psychocat. We're not nitpicking over whicc is a bigger genocide. YOU TOLD A FLAT OUT LIE AND WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU GET AWAY WITH IT. You can't just say whatever you want that sounds good and makes yourself look good if its not true. So when you get called out on a lie you told don't try to weasel your way out of it by saying stick to the issue at hand.
You are unbelievable!

[psychocat]

No psychocat. We're not nitpicking over whicc is a bigger genocide. YOU TOLD A FLAT OUT LIE AND WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU GET AWAY WITH IT. You can't just say whatever you want that sounds good and makes yourself look good if its not true. So when you get called out on a lie you told don't try to weasel your way out of it by saying stick to the issue at hand.
You are unbelievable!

1 The 6 million Jews you talk of weren't just jews they were anyone who dared to question the nazi regime and what that has to do with America and it's treatment of native americans today really is NOTHING!
2 IMO the eradication of a whole tribe is worse.
3 Stop trying to distract from the matter by pointing out others failings (the sign of a weak or useless argument).
4 I believe an ongoing problem is not going to get solved if people like yourself refuse to accept that what is happening now is WRONG and repeatedly harp on about "but what about the ______ Nazis and the KKK and the ancient Romans" or whatever.
5 Why should the original owners of a country have to obey rules made by invaders?
What is unbelievable is the attempts to justify the BS going on in the US TODAY.

[latewood]

dank, the native indians owned the land in then1st place...did you read the article? It said that sturgis festival has caused a sprawl towards the butte. Sturgis itself is not the encroachment...it is the sprawl and new construction that has the Natives up in arms. Geez...buy their own land...what a meathead!

[slowthestone]

ffs...no really...FFS!

I've had it with the term 'Native American'...could it be anymore inappropriately assigned?

Where ever you as a person were born, makes you native to that region/area/local --- I was born in America, therefore I am a native American. If I was born on Mars, I'd not be an Earthling, I'd be a Martian.

As far as the widely misused term and how it applies to Indian cultures of the Americas...

Where did 'Native Americans' come from? Did they just pop up out of the ground?

No...they walked here...from Asia, via a land bridge that previously connected North America and Asia. So they were not at all native in that sense...they were a migrating people.

There were no Native Americans until people began being born in the region. Which again is why...I myself am native to America...which is why my Caucasian-self is a Native American.

As far as taking a country goes...that again is a false statement. There was no country, per se, to take.

Of all the various North American Indian tribes, of which there were dozens...nothing was developed. Nothing was proclimated. Nothing was even remotely permanent about where and how they would settle. They were almost nearly always on the move. So if anything, their territories were infringed upon by Europeans who went on to establish towns, governments, European ways of life etc.

One should also consider...American Indians were/are people too. They warred, they plundered. They would invade and sieze that which belonged to rival tribes ffs. Europeans did to them what many of them were already doing to one another. In other words, many of them were every bit the opportunist that the Europeans were...had the roles been reversed, human nature practically demands that Indians, if they had had better technology, would have been the ones infringing upon the Europeans.

What, you think that if 50,000 Indians sailed the atlantic, settled on the shores of a European nation, that they would have just planted maze and left the locals alone?

Yeah...fat chance eh.

So in closing...all the talk, and the bullshit about Europeans taking land all those centuries ago, and the ensuining ideal that somehow the decendants are owed something, is utter crap. The decendants of those peoples that were pushed out have about as much right to retribution as I do toward going to Germany and declaring they owe me something for how life was there 179 years ago that prompted an ancestor to pack up and leave for America.

Now, as far as a fukn panty waste biker rally is concerned...everything about such an event is absurd. Developing anything, be it land or business, for an annual event is so damn stupid I could choke.
Fukn noise polluters ought to have their own town somewhere. They're ignorant lot with a blatant disregard toward how loud and intrusive their ride of choice is.

So Indian peoples or not...I vote that anything biker related be kept confined to places where only they suffer hearing loss!

[frogman81900323]

No...they walked here...from Asia, via a land bridge that previously connected North America and Asia. So they were not at all native in that sense...they were a migrating people.

There are several theories/stories concerning the originals or Aboriginal peoples in this continent. You offer only one.

There were no Native Americans until people began being born in the region. Which again is why...I myself am native to America...which is why my Caucasian-self is a Native American.

Indeed, you may very well be, but you are not of the First Nations.

As far as taking a country goes...that again is a false statement. There was no country, per se, to take.

Of all the various North American Indian tribes, of which there were dozens...nothing was developed. Nothing was proclimated. Nothing was even remotely permanent about where and how they would settle. They were almost nearly always on the move. So if anything, their territories were infringed upon by Europeans who went on to establish towns, governments, European ways of life etc.

First, there was not a single political entity, but there were many sophisticated, advanced nations before the Spaniards. The capacity for industrial slaughter is not the only hallmark of an advanced society is it? And they did have understanding in terms of land use and general territorial stewardship, although they have not suffered with the colonizer's presumptive arrogance in believing they have the ability to own land - incredible! This land was not "terra nullis," it was shared among many nations, among all the creatures of the earth! :stoned:

[slowthestone]

There are several theories/stories concerning the originals or Aboriginal peoples in this continent. You offer only one.

It is no theory. Asian artifacts, that pre-date Indian tribes, but were manufactored after the land bridge was lost to the rising waters...have been being documented for several years now. As in, unless Asians threw these artifacts across the Baltic Sea, the people that made them did so from techniques passed through the generations.

Indeed, you may very well be, but you are not of the First Nations.

That's a blind statement. For all you or I know, an ancestor of mine had a Inuit or Metis mate. It matters not though for fact that Homosapien originated in Africa. Peoples of the First Nation are claiming the wrong land as home.

First, there was not a single political entity, but there were many sophisticated, advanced nations before the Spaniards. The capacity for industrial slaughter is not the only hallmark of an advanced society is it? And they did have understanding in terms of land use and general territorial stewardship, although they have not suffered with the colonizer's presumptive arrogance in believing they have the ability to own land - incredible! This land was not "terra nullis," it was shared among many nations, among all the creatures of the earth! :stoned:

Then if all the land was no one's to claim...why do decendants of American Indian tribes go around claiming one location or another belongs to them?

Or better...why do they, today, hold deeds on/for land and man made structures?

My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There's been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.

Even though many practiced a lifestyle that was motivated on being harmonious with nature...they were still human.

Is this the part where I cite all the pitfalls of humanity?

[frogman81900323]

My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There's

been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.

Yeah, they're human and not more human than anyone else, but a great injustice has been handed to them for the past 150 years or longer. And there is no romanticizing that plain, cold fact away. It won't disappear because we wish it. There need's to be some discussion. Break out the peace pipes and fill 'em with the sweetest grass of em' all, bruthaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa!

[frogman81900323]

I guess it just makes me mad to think that some old farts with their kitsch motorcycles and leather tassles disturb significant religious ceremonies. I guess it shouldn't surprise me but still you would think they would have more class than that!

[PigSnout]

1 The 6 million Jews you talk of weren't just jews they were anyone who dared to question the nazi regime and what that has to do with America and it's treatment of native americans today really is NOTHING!

The 6 million WERE Jews, millions of others were murdered by nazis as well.