thanks for the input fellas im convinced i have a small mite infestation but im not convinced this ifestation is causing them to lose there color or the bronzing between the veins.I believe this could be ph,I only water with rain water and have only gave them a light dose of earthjuice when i noticed them losing color.could the bronzing be a boron deficiency.im going to get battries and a new electode for my ph pen this morning.Ill post the ph results today.