what part of the world are you from shelbay?? I am have not been through the 'bread basket' of american and don't really know or understand how religion is taught. And I think that is where most of my ignorance comes from. I guess I'm assuming that everyone had religion around them like I did. I'm from a little town in FL and most of my home city was/is very religious. I was outcasted for being an 'atheist' but not in the terms of not having friends or excommunicated from the community... I was very popular in highschool, something I didn't really want either , but I did think that 'america' was like my town and that I lived the typical american lifestyle. We there was a freedom to learn what you wanted and to question what you were taught. Now I must admit is was yelled at and punished for my beliefs but I think it was mainly because of the way I expressed them. (as you can tell I can get a bit offensive at times)....

But when I was younger I realized, thanks to George Carlin and Gallagher none the less, that words are but words... they are letters put together to make sounds that convey meaning. And to use a better allusion,

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet."

--From Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)

for it is just the word that describes and conveys meaning... it's the predesposition of a 'rose' that allows you to understand what it means... so to me there are no 'cursed words'... I do have a loose tounge but I try to only keep it to topics that deserve it. Religion doesn't and I don't think cussing will help in the cause for expressing religion, I do think however that religion has put a sterotype on words and that it is correct to use some and incorrect to use others, which isn't correct.

by the way one thing that gets to me is that there is no Commandment saying that you shouldn't curse... the only Commandments directly related to speech is that of...

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

and

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

And what behooves me is the fact that we swear to god in our legal system, and we have a government, based on chirstianity right now, that does nothing but attack the Liberals.


As for the Bible, I don't like King James, or any modern bible now. After hearing about and reading some of the Dead Sea Scrolls it opened my mind and help me realize that the Bible isn't factual of the history in a whole and that there are other sources needed to fullfil God's message. Now that's not saying that God's message isn't in the Bible or that reading it is bad... but I do think it's jaded from a few things Jesus taught and believed that completely changed the idea of Chirstianity. The Gospel of Judas that was just discovered and restored was also amazing to me. I always had questions about the bible and how it contradicted itself, but always gave that to the fact that they are just words passed down for generations after the life and death of Jesus and the stories would be a bit different. Judas' Gospel taught me alot about the Gospel of John and about the Last Super in a whole. It put more doubt in me about how factual and unedited the first four Gospels were recorded. I must admit I have not read the bible in years and am not remembering much about the individual Gospels of the Old Testament nor the New ones for that matter, but like you I favor the latter...

But after reading more information about Jesus and God that wasn't in the Bible I made the personal decision that the Ten Commandments would be the 'word of God' that I would take as seriously as I could and try to follow as best as I can. But the rest was to me just a story and over the years the Bible has turned into that for me... So I hope my lack of knowledge of Matthew and Revelations isn't hindering the conversation, but I will say this...

There were more than 4 people around Jesus at his last supper and more than 4 people that he held close to him... I don't like that there are only four Gospels in the Bible... I believe the number of known Gospels is somewhere around 31. So, I've never been too fond of the 4 thinking they had some privy for being included... although I do think they were the oldest (not sure on that one, think John is the oldest). But like I said, I take the Gospels as just an overview of the teachings and history of the time.

Revelations scared the shit out of me. I don't remember much, just that I didn't want to know and that I didn't want it to happen. I think it, like Genesis is mainly comprised of ancient beliefs of the worlds beingings and the end of what will come. Evolution tossed Genesis out of view for me and the Rightousness of Revelations, as well as the exclusivity of it, lead me to not believe in it.

I also went to a high school where the Viking was the mascot and I learned that they had an idea of Heaven and Hell long before chirstians, however their hell was very cold and there heaven was hot... beacuse of where they lived and what they new. The Chineese and Aztecs ( I think aztecs, could be wrong on them) had a Flood story, much like the one of Noah long before his story was ever concieved. I think Revelations is just a story passed down from generation to generation about how the end of the world will come, not any historical prophecy of how the end will be. It along with Genesis are also, imo, the most used Gospels that are/were used to derive power from for the Church. The Idea that your God created everything and that he has the power the end it, and his control of everything before, during and after is the reason and tactic the Church uses to gain control and power of it's followers.

Have you seen the Dead Dea Scrolls or the Gospels of Judas?? The National Geographic channel did a great story on Judas' Gospels.

I want to also say that my youth was spent inside a church and the Ten Commandments were posted in front of me everyday, and that someone was trying to 'teach' them to me. But with only ten of them is amazed me that I had to find out one of them from a South Park episode...

I was never taught ...

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

nor understood it's meanings until only a few months ago... I didn't even know the wording of the Commandment was spose to be like that... which lead me to read them more and understand the Ten Commandments more... which also lead me to read this...

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

which has been conviently changed to 'go to church on sunday morning' ... I mean to me there is a big difference between no work, and go to church and think about god... it just showed to me that religion is only what people make it and that if the world isn't the center of the universe, they don't change their belief, they change they meaning behind the belief... when the Church wanted to put Jesus and a Cross everywhere during the Crusades, they didn't change their belief in the graven image, they changed what it meant... much like the Holy Day... we don't keep a day holy anymore, we don't even come close... 90% of chirstians work on saturday and think sunday is the sabbath... I think that has a lot to do with why I don't like or agree with the beliefs that the Church keeps giving for the Word of God...

I know it's going to sound stupid and just as crazy as the Church, but I found god on mushrooms... I think I needed that complete open mind to understand and find my beliefs... and block the propaganda that the Church taught me about Jesus and God. I couldn't have come to the realization that I am at now without completly thinking of a whole different level and think that may be a hinderence in our conversation... so if something comes up that doesn't make sense or is different, please let me know and I'll try to explain a little more in depth.

Shelbay, I hope this doesn't come out wrong or is taken in the wrong way, but how do you have that much faith?? How is it that you can follow and believe in something you're not allowed to question?