ok everyone postmandave came up with a excellent idea. he is gonna ask the mods if we can have a grow contest starting 9/11/05. and the winner of the contest will be named grower of the year. make it an annual thing here. this could something big here on the forums, being named grower of the year, with bragging rights. it would be a excellent christmas gift for the winner. postman will give you more info now.