Have you ever been out in the woods and got caught up in those thorny Ivies that seem to be every where. One time I got lost in the woods when I was hunting my bluetick Hound at night, it was scary as hell. Anyway, A vast majority of people do not like to walk through thorny ivy vines. If you are willing to risk a few stinging scratches and plant your plants there they will be your friends. I tried planting seedlings there and they stretched out real bad and didn't make it. Clones will though.