2 room flipflop relay

[kushman45]

hey man i have a flip flop box it for 7 x 1000w lights times 2 so it will run 14 lights altogether get back to me and i will try to help you the best i can. its a relatively simple concept but yes they do cost an arm and a leg i think i payed 550 for mine just for the flip flop board then add 7 ballasts and 14 bulbs and shields and your starting to really get up there in price i am a hardcore do it yourselfer as well and i would be more than happy to help you out with any info i can provide.dont listen to ppl who have never had or used one the only thing they are gonna help is burning your house down faster lol . if you need to get a hold of me you can email me at [email protected]

Hey if there is any way you can open it up and either take pictures of the system and post them here that would be a big help. Or if you could read the relays for a name Like Omron or Square D. Also how long have you been using yours..........

[kushman45]

h3o also I dont think hydro retailers would sell a product that is going to shorten bulb life and cause lumen loss. I was an electrical apprentice for a few years myself. I dont have a very much experience with the way HID's work. I have Hung high bay and low bay Hids in warehouse's before. And they were tirggered by lighting contactors. I always thought to shorten a bulbs life it would have to have the incorrect voltage wired to it. Any way I understand what you are saying about, by the cap charging up to help ignite the HID bulb............Well hopefully we can work together to find out the correct way to build these. I know a lot of canadians use these............

[h3o]

Hey like I said go ahead but i got my electronic technician certificate from the military and hid bulbs is what we used for perimeter security so i did deal with both HPS and MV system everytime we had to setup a new perimeter for the systems i dealt with. But goodluck too you.

[kushman45]

Hey like I said go ahead but i got my electronic technician certificate from the military and hid bulbs is what we used for perimeter security so i did deal with both HPS and MV system everytime we had to setup a new perimeter for the systems i dealt with. But goodluck too you.

well you are correct checked with some one and you could possibly harm your bulbs and ballast if you dont let the ballast cool down so you would need 2 timers and have the ballast shut off first say at 12:00 then at 12:05 have your second timer flip the relay to the other bulb/room. then at 12:10 have your ballast kick back on and would work good.........

[u.g.u]

It loooks wierd but the only place were the wires connect is in the yellow squares indicating a wire nut and the 8 wires to the relay if the wires look like the cross any were else is due to limited space in the drawing also the blown up pic I have has all the directions on it.

[stonewall jackson]

I feel like the freaking flip flop police, traveling from board to board to correct peoples misinformation regarding the workings and standards for such a simple device.

I feel I need a heavier relay to carry the voltage but since the amps are low DO I?

Considering the open circuit voltage for all 1000 watt HID lamps is in the 400-500 Volts RMS yes, you do need a heavier relay.

In my wasted little brain I figure the cords to the lamps are only 18/2 thats pretty much standard from sunlight supply anyway, My question to all you wizzards out there, is 277 vac enough?

If you will look closely at your lamps cord, it should say somewhere on it what type of cord it is. The industry standard is either SO or STO cord. This is a reference to the cord insulation standards. SO and STO cords are rated for 600 volts and 18 gauge has a max ampacity of 10 amps. The NEC code standard most everyone uses as a universal ampacity reference for wiring is specific to THHN and should not be used as a one size fits all standard.

So you should not continue using the relay you have!!It does not meet the requirements for a flip flop relay for any 1000 watt HID lamp.

the capacitor and the igniter need time to discharge its current load if not you'll probably pop a bulb.

You don't seem to have much of an understanding of the operation of an HID lamp. Here is a good link to an article detailing the use of capacitors in HID circuits.
The ignitor is a capacitor that supplies a high voltage pulse for a very short duration(one microsecond), it will pulse continuously until the arc is established, then because electricity follows the path of least resistance the current will no loger be traveling through the ignitor (high resistance) but rather through the arc tube(negative resistance charachteristic). It has to discharge in order to light the arc initially, so your statment about it needing to be discharged or else possibly "pop" a bulb is nonesense.
The other capactior in an HID lamp circuit, other than the ignitor, is in the circuit for power factor correction and in certain ballast circuits to help limit the current to the lamp. It is chargeing and dischargeing 60 times a second each in 60 herts alternating current. It does not need time to cool off or discharge its stored voltage (not current, you can't store current!)

okay have you ever heard of a "hot start?" This is when voltage is applied immediatly not letting the pressure build in the bulb first, this is what the capacitor charge time is for. Yes, you can run a 1 cap and 1 igniter for both bulb, but you are also going to be going through bulbs left and right and your lumens rate will wear down very quickly.

Your understanding and use of the term "hot start" is completley wrong. As kushman tried to explain. the proper term is "Hot Restrike" and refers to trying to relight the arc in a HOT hid lamp. When ever the lamp is hot, more precisely when ever the arc tube is hot, the gas pressures inside it are higher. Because of the higher pressure, the voltage needed to get the arc to jump the gap between the electrodes is higher. Ballasts are only capable of supplying a very narrow range of voltage to the lamp, therefore you have to let the lamp cool enough to get the pressure down enough so the voltage needed is within the range supplied by the ballast. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with capacitor charge time.

Yes Hot Restrikes are detrimental to the bulb, but flip flops do not produce a hot restrike scenerio. So your completley off target with your statments.

uses dayton relays from grainger.com I use it on 1000 watt lights and have never had a problem. The relays come in 2 pieces the relay and the base the relay is model #5yr16 and the base is 2a582m

Your relay is not rated for the voltage neccesary for 1000 watt HID flip flops. yours is rated for 300 volts and 15 amps resistive, the 1000 watt will have 400-500 volts rms open circuit voltage and the load is induvtive not resistive. i highly recomend discontinueing its use and acquireing a properly sized relay.





Ballasts (transformer, capacitor and when needed ignitor) do not need a cool down time before being switched on. Bulbs do need a cool down time before being switched on.


toke it easy :smokin:

[kushman45]

Thanks Stonewall for showing up over here and layin down the law on this flipflop system.................:thumbsup:

[kushman45]

Hey Stonewall ya got any pictures of one you have built would be awsome to see............

[u.g.u]

stonewall jackson
I have never had a problem with it mine is a store bought unit I opened it after purchase to see how it worked incase I needed to build another. I used it on 4 1000 watts 2 on 2 off for nearly 2 years. when I saw that it was for only 10 amps I kinda wondered I am sure for a few more $ you could get I higher amperage

[stonewall jackson]

I don't have a camera right now, but mine looks just like the one in the gardenscure thread. I switch both leads to the bulb, so there is no current present in the bulb that is not lit. So one relay per ballast.

toke it easy. :smokin: