2 room flipflop relay

[stonewall jackson]

Keep your eye on those contacts man, that relay is way under built for 1000 watt HID lamp circuits.

Does your store bought unit have any UL or CSA approval stickers on it? A make and model? is it the hydroyeild one? Can I see a picture of it?

thanks man. :smokin:

stonewall jackson Reviewed by stonewall jackson on 06-12-2006. 2 room flipflop relay Hello all, new to this site it is full of great peeps and knowledge. I am a hardcore Do It Yourselfer. I am asking this community for some help. I am interested in building a 2 room 4 ballast 8 lamp flipflop relay system. These are super expensive from hydro shops like $400 just for the one I would like to build. I know it works with relays But they need to be strong enough to flip 1000 watt HPS systems. someone must have one and could possibly post pics then we could do a how to on building Rating: 5

[h3o]

Hey stonewall like i said ive been dealing with hids for well over 10 years now, and most of the information youve given these people are false you do not base relays on voltage you base it on amperage, the voltage is a given when buying the relays.

and about the hot start this is standard military term, look at a hid bulb when it starts up does it just "turn on" it charges up doesnt it? because the gases in there need time to build pressure if not it has a "hot start" the capacitor has a rise and fall time which acts like a warm up for the bulb, but hey like i said i am not familiar with these flipflop relays that are built for hid lighting maybe they do have a timed relay in there for all i know. But also good luck if you wanna keep giving these people that kind of information, i will not be held responsible for someone coming on the board saying they have to change bulbs every month.

[stonewall jackson]

, and most of the information youve given these people are false

Prove it! I challenge you.

you do not base relays on voltage you base it on amperage, the voltage is a given when buying the relays.

Voltage is just as important as amperage when chooseing a relay for any circuit. Not only coil voltage but also as I keep trying to point out max contact or switching voltage. you Don't seem to understand that the flip flop relay contacts will be on the secondary side of the transformer in the ballast circuit. This voltage is in the range of 400-500 volts RMS for all 1000 watt HIDs (MV, MH, HPS). Please do consider this when making a relay purchase!

and about the hot start this is standard military term, look at a hid bulb when it starts up does it just "turn on" it charges up doesnt it?

NO, it does not charge up. You show how much you know by the words you use. The warm up time is the time it takes the arc to reach full power, it takes time for the reaction to take place that produces the plasma that provides the light. It has nothing to do with a cappacitor chargeing.

because the gases in there need time to build pressure

No the gases don't need time to build pressure, they do have higher press. at higher temps, but it doesn't need time to do this, if the temp rises gradually or suddenly, the pressure will still be in direct relation to the temp. there is no lag time between temperature changes and pressure changes. the warm up time is just that time for the arc to reach full temperature and power(current).

if not it has a "hot start" the capacitor has a rise and fall time which acts like a warm up for the bulb,

Rise and fall time is not relative to our discussion, so I won't go into it. But suffice it to say that it is typically measured in nanoseconds so your use of it is laughable.

but hey like i said i am not familiar with these flipflop relays that are built for hid lighting

This I would agree with you on.

i will not be held responsible for someone coming on the board saying they have to change bulbs every month.

However I will do my best to hold you responsible for the advice you do give.

toke it easy. :smokin:


The open circuit output voltage of the ballast, not including any starting pulses, needs to be well above the normal voltage across a warmed-up lamp for stable operation - at least 1.4 times as high for even somewhat reliable operation and preferably at least 1.6 times the normal arc voltage.

[kushman45]

Stonewall thanks again for all your help I truly appreciate it. h3o please if you do not want to help in building this please do not reply any more. Many people use these and I dont here of any reports of having to replace bulbs every month if this was the case people would have claimed this long ago and flipflops would not be used. But many people use these and no reports of bulb failures. And they would not sell them. Now U.G.U's statement scares me, I have heard that retailers sell cheap made flipflops with cheap relay's. I will not buy one from a retailer just because of that fact......Anyway no sense arguing over this either you want to build your own or you dont if not go buy one with cheap relays for 500 bucks...............good luck to all I have learned a great deal and I think I am set on what to do.................

[h3o]

Prove it! I challenge you.



Voltage is just as important as amperage when chooseing a relay for any circuit. Not only coil voltage but also as I keep trying to point out max contact or switching voltage. you Don't seem to understand that the flip flop relay contacts will be on the secondary side of the transformer in the ballast circuit. This voltage is in the range of 400-500 volts RMS for all 1000 watt HIDs (MV, MH, HPS). Please do consider this when making a relay purchase!



NO, it does not charge up. You show how much you know by the words you use. The warm up time is the time it takes the arc to reach full power, it takes time for the reaction to take place that produces the plasma that provides the light. It has nothing to do with a cappacitor chargeing.


No the gases don't need time to build pressure, they do have higher press. at higher temps, but it doesn't need time to do this, if the temp rises gradually or suddenly, the pressure will still be in direct relation to the temp. there is no lag time between temperature changes and pressure changes. the warm up time is just that time for the arc to reach full temperature and power(current).



Rise and fall time is not relative to our discussion, so I won't go into it. But suffice it to say that it is typically measured in nanoseconds so your use of it is laughable.


This I would agree with you on.



However I will do my best to hold you responsible for the advice you do give.

toke it easy. :smokin:


The open circuit output voltage of the ballast, not including any starting pulses, needs to be well above the normal voltage across a warmed-up lamp for stable operation - at least 1.4 times as high for even somewhat reliable operation and preferably at least 1.6 times the normal arc voltage.

just for shits and giggles i went and tried to find some research on the internet to help prove my facts, go to www.howstuffworks.com (how redundant huh) and kushman you asked for someone to help you build one of your own right? I tried to help you, you even asked someone else and found that the information i gave you was true.
But hey im outta this one already good luck too all of you.

[kushman45]

dude I appreciate your general interest h3o but you have basically told me not to build one that I would burn bulbs or lose lumens. I am done with this I just like to try and save money on things by doing it on my own if I can. All I know is from my research flipflop system exist that work well. Whether they are built to electrical safety code I have no idea. I like the idea of saving money on extra ballast to run 2 flower rooms. And yes I did state that I some what backed your statements but I was mislead also from someone else and stonewall validated correct info............Hey man I am a peacful person I dont want to fight with nobody over this just want to build my own because they are to expensive from the hydro stores.............:stoned:

[Zandor]

There is a simple test you can play with.

You use one of the transformers that have plug in cords. Now you have 2 cords and 2 bulbs. Plug in one set (plug & bulb) let it get hot about 10 min should do. Now with the transformer still on you unplug the cord and quickly plug in the second set of plug & bulb. Now you have just done a manual flip switch watch the second bulb and see what happens.

That will settle the debate of if it will work or not.


I'm not going to say.

[latewood]

If I may, I have a book. 5 easy gardens by Jorge C.
I will get the book out find this how-to...at least I am pretty sure, they included a tutorial...
Anyway; All you do place a timer relay inline between the 2 HID lamps and the ballast.

After 12 hours, the timer relay switches the power from the ballast to the lamp in the other room. The ballast never shuts off...All you have to do is match the timer relay to the ballast output to the lamp.

so when the realy timer switches to the cold lamp...It is as if the system just came on.

I will look for the info...lw

[h3o]

dude I appreciate your general interest h3o but you have basically told me not to build one that I would burn bulbs or lose lumens. I am done with this I just like to try and save money on things by doing it on my own if I can. All I know is from my research flipflop system exist that work well. Whether they are built to electrical safety code I have no idea. I like the idea of saving money on extra ballast to run 2 flower rooms. And yes I did state that I some what backed your statements but I was mislead also from someone else and stonewall validated correct info............Hey man I am a peacful person I dont want to fight with nobody over this just want to build my own because they are to expensive from the hydro stores.............:stoned:

im sorry but where in this whole thing did i tell you "not" to build one i was going to even draw you up a schematic for it using one ballast with 2 caps and 2 ignitors. but o well this thread pretty much seems like it ended so aloha

[latewood]

Sorry, all they showed was a schematic showing what I describe above. I have wanted to build one of these aver since the 1st of the year. I'll check around for relays.

they showed a cost of 200 bucks for 1 relay to turn on/off 2 1000w MH and a timer to switch the relay for 30 bucks...

So it sounds like the prices you guys researched or spent already is right on track...Now let me see if I can find the component from a less expensive source.

lw