those opposing illegal immigration... consider this:

[Shelbay]

I think the economy would improve after the initial fallout..I don't agree that hispanics do "jobs others won't do"..its just that when the big money hires illegal aliens at the cheaper wages they are not only hurting legal Americans but also preventing the illegals they hire any rights to higher wages..it keeps them docile,no education (learning english at the least) and for darn sure they will work Sundays,Holidays and not even be able to report work violations..so it hurts ALL workers....make them legal and let them be proud to be here...and I still say they need to be taught english..after all..ignorance is greatly appreciated by big business..yes it really bothers me when I have to resort to their language to explain important information and I consistently tell them this too...not just this board. Oh...and I noticed a huge difference in Alabamas illegals and Californias and texas....the ones here (3,000-4,000) wave the American flag proud..not Mexicos...that means alot to them and "us".

[Shelbay]

seriously can you find what posts are contradictory to me being American?

i do think that more should be done, like they should have protested in their native land, but i think it needs to be done here in America also [by Americans im saying, b/c we are in a terrible situation b/c of our gov't too].

The reason they feel like they should do it here is b/c our government and principles are very closely related to our founding ideology, which are basic rights for all, and now that they have been here and working here for the gov't to simply classify them as felons is unfair.

To come to America illegally is what is unfair....

[Fengzi]

I think the economy would improve after the initial fallout..

Probably but it would take years, possibly decades, for things to balance themselves out. And, it would get a lot worse before it got better. This isn't based on some theroy, it's based on economic pricinples. Principles which are about as reliable as 2+2=4.

I don't agree that hispanics do "jobs others won't do"...

By "job" I mean the whole picture. Picking strawberries for $2 and hr is an entirely different job from picking strawberries for $10 an hr.

its just that when the big money hires illegal aliens at the cheaper wages they are not only hurting legal Americans but also preventing the illegals they hire any rights to higher wages..it keeps them docile,no education (learning english at the least) and for darn sure they will work Sundays,Holidays and not even be able to report work violations..so it hurts ALL workers...

Agreed, but sadly it has become the norm and is completeky ingrained into the system. Any drastic change in the staus quo will have serious short and mid-term consequences.

make them legal and let them be proud to be here...and I still say they need to be taught english..after all..ignorance is greatly appreciated by big business..yes it really bothers me when I have to resort to their language to explain important information and I consistently tell them this too...not just this board.

I definitely agree here, especially on the learning English part. When I lived in China I had to speak Chinese. Period! Almost nobody over there speaks English and if I wanted to use a particular servive I didn't have a choice of languages. If I could do it so can anyone coming here.

It's not just illegals though. I am amazed at how many legal, even highly educated, immigrants here can't, or can barely, speak English. This is one of my wife's biggest pet peeves. Despite the fact that she didn't step foot into this country until she was 27, she speaks English, with no accent, at a level that is considerably better than most native speakers. Ok, she is a highly educated linguist so she does have a bit of an advantage but still.... She becomes absolutely infuriated when she has to speak in Chinese to, or translate for, the other educated software engineers she works with. Even I have had many instances where it has been easier for me to communicate in Chinese, instead of English, with other professional here in the Silicon Valley. It's simply ridiculous.

Oh...and I noticed a huge difference in Alabamas illegals and Californias and texas....the ones here (3,000-4,000) wave the American flag proud..not Mexicos...that means alot to them and "us".

I don't doubt it. It's all in the numbers. California is something like 30% or more Hispanic. Alabama is less than 2%. There's definietly going to be more of a sense of Hispanic community here. Plus, if I was a member of a <2% minority in an area where good 'ol boys in white robes still roamed I would't make much of a fuss either.

[Shelbay]

The good old boys here don't wear white robes...they wear uniforms for the majority..also..if you come to Alabama you would see that the KKK no longer is here,not that we know of anyway..and if they are..I doubt very seriously they would announce it considering that Alabama is very diverse in heritage..take a look at Birmingham,Montgomery,Selma,Mobile...and there is your power in this State..and its NOT the white heritage.:thumbsup: And the Hispanics here are no where in #'s with CA and TX but the ones that are here show American pride..not another country that many illegals claim oppressed them(as in Mexico) They show respect toward others and we may be a minority but our community continues to move forward..together..we really do...and telling the illegals that its okay to continue working as they are just because they are illegal is not a good thing..but there are ways to change things without abusing others rights...they need to march on Washington considering that immigration is fixable but it will never happen because the Government (you know the real power..) and big money like to use immigrants as a platform but really have no intention of "fixing" it...so the truth should be taught and applied so that more than marching can be done to make them legal....and that is going to be impossible when they don't even speak the same language as the big boys..and those are in Washington..not the South!:thumbsup:

[Shelbay]

Sorry about the double post..but I didn't edit in time. I wanted to add that I appreciate you sharing about your wifes frustrations in translating sometimes...that is why I originally posted on this thread...and when I said forced to learn it..some of them are "set in their ways" and have had younger members of the family have to do the teaching..they force them to listen and respond in english. Important information can be lost in translation..sort of like playing the "gossip" game..you take like ten people,sit them in chairs,whisper something in the first ones ear...they repeat in to the next one..and by the time it gets repeated at the end of the line..its nothing like what was originally said.

[grinthenbearit]

any of the clauses in the definition for a convict apply.....

illegal aliens.....
1. don't pay income tax
2. don't pay medicare
3. don't pay medical insurance
4. use tax funded roads, sidewalks, fire departments ect ect ect ect ect
5. use free medical care at free clinics at tax PAYER expense


1+2+3+4+5 = illegal aliens are a drain on the standard of living of legal residents living in the USA, becuse less tax money can go to pay gov't employees and also existing legal residents must be overtaxed to compensate

Not to mention our evergrowing deficit cannot possibly be getting much help from aliens either

[benagain]

This is a long thread with a lot of fighting. That's what I think.

[Shelbay]

I think its a good thread..at least no one has used the c word...

[DazedNblazed]

well i wouldnt care if they were coming over here and staying here as citizens, but instead there getting jobs here making money and taking it back to mexico and living like kings......so stop fucking america in the ass mexico.

[friendowl]

im a chicano and i can understand both sides

one thing i really agree with is that whoever is here no matter from where you came please please learn english.

i speak spanish but sometimes when im sober i pretend to only speak english
the people who only speak spanish get pissed off like its your fault you cant understand.if i went to mexico and tried toget by in english i would be taken advantage of.

i cant wait to see what happens with this.