Why religion doesn't exist

[beachguy in thongs]

These are just a few I can think of:
Donâ??t kill
Drop food and aid not bombs
Use renewable energy
Cut down on pollutants
Welfare
Free Medicare
Free school and college
Some sort of population limit control
Legalizing Herb

Feel free to add to this list

How can you forget?

[mont974x4]

Moon,
you are heading down the socilaism/communism route. I do understand ideas, altho I disagree with them, but what do you base them on? You can't just say because it's what I feel is right because we all feel diferent. A lot of our goals may be the same but how we accomplish those goals will also differ.

For instance,
I am against welfare for people who just don't want to work. I do believe we should support widows and orphans. I do favor work programs as opposed to handouts.

I am against government run healthcare and schools. Free enterprise breeds competition and ultimately provides better products and better prices. (I honestly can't imagine having my health in a country with socialized medicine. It is not a matter of the quality of care but that of the beurocracy to get to the care)


I don't know what to say about population control..reminds me of China?


We agree on the MJ at least. lol

[MoonStarer420]

...what do you base them on? You can't just say because it's what I feel is right because we all feel diferent.

Common sense at the most. Its not based on what you feel is right. It's based on statistics and science. What physically betters the human race now, in the future, and to give every person a chance at life. These rules would be basically like your 10 commandments, only they will be enforced by real people.

I am against welfare for people who just don't want to work. I do favor work programs as opposed to handouts

What about those who physically can't, how got hurt and have no heath insurance? Or single parents? I think it would be better for them to stay at home and raise their child. And for when the kids get older, develop a program to find the parents jobs with hours for when there kids are at school.

I am against government run healthcare and schools. Free enterprise breeds competition

I'm not against capitalism. I just think we need a balance of both. Plus I'm not talking about the Government running them, only paying for the costs of the people. We would be able to fund much of what I'm talking about if we spent money on our own people instead of on weapons and war to kill others with no justification? WMDâ??s my ass.

I don't know what to say about population control..reminds me of China?.

I'm being realistic. The point is that Earth can only support so many people. What are we going to do when we reach it? People will starve. Why not try and prevent that from happing. I know we should be completely free to reproduce and all but what about taking some social responsibility?

We agree on the MJ at least. lol

What about Use renewable energy and cutting down on pollutants? Or do you think global warming and acid rain are myths?

[PureEvil760]

there always must be an answer to somthing, a beginning, an end, somthing anything to explain our existance hence religeon is born. is it possible to accept all knowlage you possess is false that there was no begining and will be no end?

[Polymirize]

Without religion of any sort on what do you base your values, morals, and ethics? Meaning, how do you justify your stance on ethical issues?

Simple. I start from a basic assumption that there is some quality of human existence in every person regardless of race, gender, economic status, or religious beliefs. By respecting that quality of existence (I guess you could call it the human spirit or soul if that helps you) rather than certain categories of people, I do my best to insure a balanced viewpoint. I never assume that I'm right on things in a way that makes other people wrong. Just like I wouldn't think you need to be stoned to death if you disagree with me on any of these points. Since I recognise this human existence in everyone, and in myself, I simply try to act in a way that expresses respect and compassion for all beings. I suppose it's a form of virtue ethics, because the "right thing" can be different in different circumstances, because all those categories that we tried to throw out earlier are just illusionary anyway...

[mont974x4]

Now we're having a good discussion. Thanks folks!

Welfare...those with real needs should be taken care of...in many cases that could mean retraining into a job they can do. The more people we have working the more money is being.

taxes...flat national income tax. Everyone helps foot the bill. No more IRS. A an amendment would be needed to outlaw reinstating the IRS or income tax.


Medicine...if laws would be enacted to outlaw frivolous lawsuits that would help keep costs down.

Education...schools are a mess. Get the governemnt out of them. Give us back out tax dollars. If you have no kids in school you don't pay into them. If you want your kid in school you pay for it and you take them where you want. If you are unhappy with a school, try another one. When your kid and your money walk away...the school will listen.

I do think we need to find a better way to protect the environment. Acid rain and pollutions certainly are real. I am not convinced either way on the global warming issue. The problem is we need a healthy balance between protecting the environment and the needs of society (and the means we need business). How do we get new energy? So many on the left want their cake and want to eat it. I think we need to open up our own natural gas and oil operations to create American jobs and American money while we also fund and develop alternative sources like nuclear power, ethanol, practical wind resources, etc.


Poly,
thanks for the input. I think at the basis we agree. We value all human life at the get go.

I haven't seen you do this on the boards but I see it a lot from the left....they spout off about their rights but as soon as a Christian states their opinion we are bigots etc. These are the people that preach tolerance but get extremely intolerant when someone disagrees with them. All I want is an open respectful discussion on the issues.

[Polymirize]

Education...schools are a mess. Get the governemnt out of them. Give us back out tax dollars. If you have no kids in school you don't pay into them. If you want your kid in school you pay for it and you take them where you want. If you are unhappy with a school, try another one. When your kid and your money walk away...the school will listen.

I do think we need to find a better way to protect the environment. Acid rain and pollutions certainly are real. I am not convinced either way on the global warming issue. The problem is we need a healthy balance between protecting the environment and the needs of society (and the means we need business). How do we get new energy? So many on the left want their cake and want to eat it. I think we need to open up our own natural gas and oil operations to create American jobs and American money while we also fund and develop alternative sources like nuclear power, ethanol, practical wind resources

well, I admit in advance to being so far left I stand beside myself. Democrats and republicans are too scared to venture far from the "safe" center ground. Anyway, I could concede most of those those, except for education. We should all pay for education. Speaking purely statistically, the higher the level of education, the less likely an individual will end up on welfare or turn to crime as a way of making ends meet. We all benefit from living in an educated society. And likewise, the best education shouldn't go solely to those families with the money to pay for it. So I suppose I have no trouble paying for education...
And as for resources, I'm always surprised when people point out other sources of oil as a solution, when oil is the problem in the first place. It's not going to last. Whether fuel resources are depleted in the next 100 years or the next 20, we know that they're not going to last forever. With that in mind we should be moving into different areas now. I see nothing wrong with investing more money into sustainable energy and creating new jobs and growth in that sector rather than opening up new oil fields which we can all agree are at best a postponement and denial of the problem.

Apparently religion doesn't exist, so it's all just politics then. :thumbsup:

[mont974x4]

I agree education is very important, however throwing money at it isn't an answer. I think it's down South somewhere there's a school that tests near teh top of the nation while spending the least per student annually. They have to be doing something right.

Maybe if the Fed governemnt were limited to actual Constitutional powers then they wouldn't need so much in taxes (another constitutionally debatable issue) then the state and local government would have more money to do their jobs...education as one of those.

I only look to other sources of oil as a short term solution. Creating more jobs, generating more income and ultimately developing better ideas in the future. We use hydro-power for electricity here and I am not far from a couple of windfarms. A lot of ranchers use groundwater down South to cool their homes and have converted their work trucks to propane. It's a start.

Oil is also a national security issue. While I don't believe this war is for oil (if it was we'd be keeping the money for ourselves or better yet invade Canada for thier oil). If OPEC nations wanted to they could cripple the global economy and send us all into chaos. Remember petrolium is used for far more products than just running my truck down the road.

LOL Religion does exist, it just exists in defierent ways for diferent people. I base my poltical and ethical views on my religious beliefs. Some people are religious in how they brush their teeth or play golf etc. Some are even religious about their anti-religious views. It really has very little to do with God.

[altagid]

I remember I thought the same thing at one time
but there is always one question that goes unanswered:
where the fuck did it all come from
and until you can answer that, you can't really say theres no god

"God" doesnt answer the question of where it all came from - it just moves it back one step - Where did God come from? And if he always existed then why cant the universe always have existed. Just because you cant explain something doesnt mean you pick the first flimsy explanation at hand. Sometimes its best to accept that you dont know and might never know.

And as to the first post. IMO human beings are born believers. (I am an atheist) In every culture, every part of the world, in every period of history nearly all men believe in a supernatural world. If there were a nuclear holocaust and the survivors grew up knowing nothing of our cultures, they too would likely end up believing in some sort of god. The human brain has a terrible weakness for a good story.

[mrpink019]

Without religion of any sort on what do you base your values, morals, and ethics? Meaning, how do you justify your stance on ethical issues?

Morals and ethics technically don't exist. In true human nature these things(as well as feelings, but that is a totally different discussion) don't exist(would you say that a dog or monkey has ethics?). The only reason they are thought to exist today is because things like religion try to explain the reasons for human behaivor through itself. For instance, if a starving man was given the chance to either shoot a man or eat a pizza and he ate the pizza, a lot of people would say he ate it not only because he was starving, but also because he had good ethics. Ethics actually had nothing to do with it. He gained nothing from shooting the man, but by eating a sandwich he prolonged his death. Therefore he acted according to what seemed to be good for him.

Humans and the rest of the animal kingdom act according to instinct, and according to their needs. Not because of ethics. Even if some one kills an innocent person, it always boils down to the fact that they are doing what they think is best for them, even if their thinking is severely flawed.


I would add my two cents to this nice discussion that you have going on about government, but as of late I have been feeling apathy towards the government and have no stance on it.