Quote Originally Posted by mrdevious
Not to rag on your believes, it's fine to be a christian, but keep in mind that demonic forces were the initial explanation for all mental illness, feelings of darkness, sexual dreams from men (they believe some female demon raped men at night, which is why they had sexual dreams), even just evil people. but we all know now, they've proven, that all these conditions occure direction from specific chemical interactions with specific parts of the brain. I mean hallucinogens in themselves, even drugs in the hospital, can create states of mind so powerfull you'd never be able to feel that on your own.
Some good points. My argument isn't really the mushrooms themselves, but just the mindstate that they put you in. I do know that there are two ways to look at the effects of drugs: material effects, non-material effects. Simply saying "chemicals did this to the brain" doesn't really expalin that effect on the "intellect"-the actions of the mind. What I mean is that alchohol for example effects our brain for strictly physical reasons (chemicals touched this part of the brain etc etc), and it is what this does to our ability to comprehend the situation that is changed. The mushroom trip my friend and I had very much left us in a mental state where perhaps we could rationalize things differently, but it is the fact that we cannot intellectually defend ourselves from attacks, nor could we reason them out (be they "temptations" or literal demonic possesion) in the same way we would sober (we are POTENTIALLY vulnerable is what I mean.) This is just an idea I've had as to why I've felt very heavenly feeligns during a good mushroom trip, and very hellish ones during a bad one.

Quote Originally Posted by mrdevious
now I don't personally believe there is a god, but for the moment I'll just give the benefit of the doubt and assume there is one. God has designed human beings with an amazingly complex body and even more complex brain. He wants us to live good lives, but it's more than that isn't it? He wants us to be good people , to be free of evil thoughts, evil urges, to not have an evil soul, but one that is pure and good. The best way to attain such a state of mind is to understand yourself, understand what truly makes you feel evil, or angry, or depressed, or greedy. strengthen your mind, strengthen your inner self, when it's you who determines your mindstate, it is you who can have control over yourself above any demon or outside force. I think this is what god would want, for the truly good people like yourself to have the power, not the evil forces. Though as to how you would purify and strengthen yourself, I can't tell you, that's up to however your faith would accomplish that.
This is a simply difference of philosophy. I believe that God does want those things for us, but I also believe that the only way we attain those is through our closeness to God. How do we be close to God? I could give you my personal response but I'm sure you already guessed