Rebirth through atheism

[Oneironaut]

And what do you propose they will teach in place of these religions?

What do you mean, in place of them? Mankind does not need any kind of superstitious mythology. The idea isn't to replace one mythology with another, it's to get rid of it altogether. We need to practice critical thinking, to base our beliefs on factual evidence, and to accept the world for what it is. That will not be possible so long as religion continues to oppress the minds of billions.

[Oneironaut]

So you blame the religious world for the negativity it has caused?

Well, if religion is responsible for negative consequences, then religion deserves the blame. That's only fair.

Keep in mind that communism and fascism used atheism to justify the atrocities like the haulocaust, genocide, and acts against humanity.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolf Hitler

And the communists were only trying to replace traditional religion with their own quasi-religion, one praising the state and the Party rather than any gods.

You seem to be forgetting the MILLENNIA OF HORRORS that have followed in the spread of the practice of Christ worship. There was a time when the Church ruled over all of Europe - it was called the Dark Ages. People were executed for disagreeing with the Church in any manner. Then came the Crusades, when Christians tried to take Jerusalem and prove through violence that Jesus was superior to Mohammed. Then came the Spanish Inquisition, and the violent suppression of the idea that the Earth was not at the center of the universe, thousands of witch hunts, dozens of religious wars between Catholic and Protestant nations, etc. etc. etc. Nowadays Christians are still massacring over religion. Just look at the war in Northern Ireland and the pro-lifers killing doctors in the name of Jesus. Look at the Catholics spreading AIDS around Africa by discouraging safe sex. If atheism is to blame for those things you say it is, then be fair and admit that Christianity is to blame for far worse.

The soviets, nazis, Iraq under Hussein, etc. There are atrocities commited like the crusades by people who've claimed to be under the direction of God, but keep in mind that any claim involving unneccesary slaughter would not be justified sanely by the bible.

Uhhh...not quite. God loves unnecessary slaughter. Check it out.
http://www.deism.org/deism%20vs%20the%20Bible%204.html

[Pyramidsonmars]

Pyramidsonmars do you have any idea what you're even saying anymore? Athesism caused maybe 1% of the wars over all of time, while people and nations that followed an actual religion caused ohhh somewhere around 80%. Communism does not use athesism to justify the holocaust because uhhhh they faught AGAINST it. And since you seem to have read the bible i do understand your strong religious position.

Nazism used atheism to justify killing jews dude. They used "survival of the fittest" explanations and "superior race" ideals. Hitler infact was a huge fan of Nietzche, whome I believe was an adamant atheist.

Anyway, religion has hardly been the cause in any situation save where religion was heavily culture based. Even this war with Iraq is only a religious war to a small group of terrorists. To the rest of the world it's simply one side that happens to be christian, and the other side that happens to be muslim.

I would even propose that the crusades had a lot to do with muslims bringing their culture so bluntly into Europeane-christian society. (the point is that it's a cultural difference rather than a religious difference)

[Pyramidsonmars]

"Well, if religion is responsible for negative consequences, then religion deserves the blame. That's only fair.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolf Hitler"

Do you think for one second that Hitler followed any doctrine of the Bible? Has this man not lied enough that you believe he would embrace a religion that clearly condradicts everything he did?

"And the communists were only trying to replace traditional religion with their own quasi-religion, one praising the state and the Party rather than any gods."

It used to be VERY dangerous for Christian missionairies in Russia under the reign of Communism. Infact people had to do it in secret meetings, and the Bible wasn't allowed in the country.

"Look at the Catholics spreading AIDS around Africa by discouraging safe sex. If atheism is to blame for those things you say it is, then be fair and admit that Christianity is to blame for far worse."

This clearly shows a gap in logical judement. How could you blame the Catholic religion (a branch I am not part of btw) for the situation in Africa, when there are ssoooo many christian/catholic donations/charities/help groups there. FAR more than any nato, non-religous group, or group by another religion, and that's fact. I'm really not trying to say "LOOK WHAT WE DID" but I just mean dude...so needless to say the catholic church is NOT the cause of massive Aids epidemics in Africa


"Uhhh...not quite. God loves unnecessary slaughter. Check it out.
http://www.deism.org/deism%20vs%20the%20Bible%204.html[/QUOTE]"

The God of love does not enjoy unnecessary slaughter

[F L E S H]

Do you think for one second that Hitler followed any doctrine of the Bible? Has this man not lied enough that you believe he would embrace a religion that clearly condradicts everything he did?

That just proves another point... There almost as many different interpretations of the Bible as there are people, and each brach of Christianity claims absolute truth. How can you claim YOU worship the right way, when the other 1,000,000,000 Christians worship differently from, and they equally think they're right? This inconsistency is one of the first things that turned me away from religion when I was a kid...

It used to be VERY dangerous for Christian missionairies in Russia under the reign of Communism. Infact people had to do it in secret meetings, and the Bible wasn't allowed in the country.

Probably the only good thing to come out of Soviet Russia....

This clearly shows a gap in logical judement. How could you blame the Catholic religion (a branch I am not part of btw) for the situation in Africa, when there are ssoooo many christian/catholic donations/charities/help groups there. FAR more than any nato, non-religous group, or group by another religion, and that's fact. I'm really not trying to say "LOOK WHAT WE DID" but I just mean dude...so needless to say the catholic church is NOT the cause of massive Aids epidemics in Africa

You're right, it's not just the Catholics, it's all the Christian groups that are doing more harm than good. You cannot go to a place like Africa and preach abstinence as a measure for fighting AIDS. Unlike white Europeans, Africans never did demonize sex, but see it for what it really is, the key to life and probably the most enjoyable thing a human being can do. Going around there saying "don't have sex, mmmkay?" just doesn't make sense... And I might add, it doesn't make sense in the US either, judging by the alarming and ever-increasing number of teen pregnancies.

[Pyramidsonmars]

That just proves another point... There almost as many different interpretations of the Bible as there are people, and each brach of Christianity claims absolute truth. How can you claim YOU worship the right way, when the other 1,000,000,000 Christians worship differently from, and they equally think they're right? This inconsistency is one of the first things that turned me away from religion when I was a kid...

To actually fit the definition of "Christian" means for one to be "saved by the blood of christ". You have to understand that even those who call themselves christian, and don't believe that first and most important thing are not christians. Christ asked that we "follow him" and that's what we try to do. The reason there are sooo many different denominations of the same church is because Christianity is a world wide religion with many different cultures and backgrounds. Any major difference between two branches of the christian church usually involve political or social events that change with the culture practicing them, but never any theological or spiritual arguments. Mormon's are a good example but most christians (98%-ish) would qualify the mormon's as a "cult" and non-christian (their doctrine has no emphasis on Christ as the son of man, aside from the fact that they Hold Joseph Smith on the same level)



Probably the only good thing to come out of Soviet Russia....



You're right, it's not just the Catholics, it's all the Christian groups that are doing more harm than good. You cannot go to a place like Africa and preach abstinence as a measure for fighting AIDS. Unlike white Europeans, Africans never did demonize sex, but see it for what it really is, the key to life and probably the most enjoyable thing a human being can do. Going around there saying "don't have sex, mmmkay?" just doesn't make sense... And I might add, it doesn't make sense in the US either, judging by the alarming and ever-increasing number of teen pregnancies.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but to really argue in this area we both need to be clear on the situations in Africa. You have to understand that the African people were just as bad as any other with how they held sex, except that they hadn't "gotten their yet" in terms of social stability, so leisure was not as abundant as our culture now. Less spare time was available to sit on the couch and get horny by watching MTV or Much Music. THEY still brought apon themselves the aids virus though, and proof of that is the fact that there's an EPIDEMIC right now. How can you say they did what they should've with sex? I'm not even pointing at the genocide or poverty of that place of the world, but the point is that you should at least get the point that in NO place in the world (not just africa) are we doing what we should be doing in order to accomplish anything. Technology goes towards mainly two things: Leisure, and Medicine...live longer, work less is pretty much the only thing humanity has shown to be working towards.

Telling people to "not have sex, mmmkay!" is hardly what the church is trying to do, but to rather help people see their sin. People need to know that having sex with multiple people is wrong, because our conciquence (or as we NOW like to usually put it, our "risks") has been things like aids, teen-pregnancy, and a morally twisted society. The reason the catholic church dismisses the idea of protected sex simply has to do with the fact that it gives humanity more option to bend sex to whatever seems to fit our desire at the moment. Doing something like this in Africa is simply bringing their wrongs to their attention. "Condoms are bad because you use them to rape women and children and get away risk free" (yes THIS is probably the largest reason for the spreading of aids btw)