Quote Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
"It??s a sadomasochistic, self-destructive philosophy"I'm not personally heavy into religion but after 6 years of Catholic school training this is a new one! How is it sadomasochistic?....I must have missed that day!! Just interested. :thumbsup:
Sadomasochism is defined as, "the perversion of deriving pleasure, especially sexual pleasure, from simultaneous sadism and masochism."

I would say that it applies to the 4 percent of priests that are child molesters, the brothers and nuns that use paddles, rulers, and other instruments (not to mention their hands) to punish children, the psychological abuse, the hatred of human sexuality, the attempt to deny the people of the world access to birth control and condoms, and many other deviant ways of acting. The Catholic Church is not alone in this, unfortunatly it is proably just as bad or worse in other denominatins of christianity and other religions.

This is not the garden-variety, harmless "S&M" that involves "sex toys" and role-playing fantasies that has become popular thanks to TV shows like Sex in the City, movies, the internet, books, magazines, sex stores, etc. People that engage in these types of behavior are NOT doing it with unwilling partners - to do so without consent would be a crime. This is a form of sexual foreplay for adults.

Abuse of children and adults by religious (or other) degenerates is wrong ?? and you can just look at the history of the Inquisitions to see what they would do if they still had the power.
Here are some of the instruments Colonel Robert Ingersoll (??The Great Agnostic?) described, which were on display in New York City back in the 19th century:

1. The Thumbscrew. Two pieces of iron united by a screwing device at each end to mechanically bring the irons together. The inner sides of the iron were armed with small spikes and protuberances to prevent slipping. Colonel Ingersoll says "The man who would not recant was not forgiven. They screwed the thumbscrews down to the last pang, and then threw the victim into some dungeon, where, in throbbing silence and darkness, he might suffer the agonies of the fabled damned."

2. The Collar of Torture. Imagine a circle of iron on the inside surface of which were a hundred points almost as sharp as needles. This persuasive argument was then fastened loosely about the throat of the sufferer. Every time he or she moved, the throat would be punctured by these sharp points. After a while the tortured throat would swell and finally suffocation would end the agonies of the hapless victim. Their crime? Perhaps they had not confessed belief of a hell in the hereafter.

3. Scavenger's Daughter. This iron instrument was shaped like a large pair of shears, if you can imagine handles at both ends, with another circle of iron just above the pivot point. In the upper handles the hands would be placed, and the feet in the lower. Through the ring near the center the head of the victim would be forced. In this condition he would be thrown prone upon the ground. The strain upon the muscles produced such agony that insanity would usually come to the final relief of the victim.

4. The Rack. This was a box similar to the bed of a wagon, with a windlass at each end, with levers and ratchets to prevent slipping. Over each windlass went chains. One set of chains was fastened to the ankles of the sufferer, the chains from the other windlass to his wrists. As the priests, divines, clergymen and other saints began turning these windlasses and continually increasing the tension, the ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows, spine of the victim were all permanently dislocated as the sufferer lay there in a screaming sweat of agony. The clergy usually would have a physician standing by to feel the pulse of the sufferer. Was it to save his life? Yes. For the sake of mercy? No. It was simply so that, like the savage Indians, they could prolong the torture which might end too soon with death.

5. The Iron Crown. In this instrument again appears the deadly thumbscrew used to tighten an open iron band about the head. In the lining of the band were a series of iron knobs. As the thumbscrew was tightened, the iron band about the head would tighten, slowly forcing the knobs into the skull. The iron crown was often imposed upon Christian martyrs on their way to execution.

6. Hanging by the Thumbs. This is pretty well self explanatory. A variation of this was hanging by one thumb, tying a heavy lead weight to the victim's feet to increase the pull, and sometimes putting firewood under the victim and ending his torture by burning.

7. Fearful Eliza. This is a chair, similar to an electric chair, in which the victim was lashed down. The spikes in the seat would prevent the victim from slipping out, to say nothing of being extremely painful. Sometimes additional heavy weights were lashed to the victims feet as he sat there contemplating whether he should or should not believe the story of Jonah and the Whale, or whether Joshua really did stop the sun for a day.

8. Mouth Openers. This was usually inflicted on what the church called "blasphemers." It consisted of two small iron plates. These were inserted between the upper and lower teeth and spread apart by turning a thumbscrew. (Again those damned thumbscrews. I am beginning to realize the deadly origin of the "putting the screws" to somebody.) Once the jaws had been pried apart these loving Christians then had a variety of other goodies in store for their helpless victims. One was to pour molten hot lead down the throat of the sufferer. Another was to seize the tongue with iron pincers, and the tongue was either slitted or cut off.

9. The Trinity. This was a three part group of torture instruments of which the above mentioned pincers were a part. The other consisted of an iron mask that was put on red hot. The third was a metal chain, called a scourge, that looked like the skeleton of a snake. Sometimes a fourth instrument was used in accompaniment to these, namely a perforated iron spoon, for dropping hot lead pellets on the naked body. This combination of gentle persuaders was in its time of material service in stimulating the worship of the heavenly Trinity in whose loving name they were applied.

10. Branding Irons. A number of these were common, among which the letter "U" predominates, which in several languages stood for "unbeliever." In this museum in New York Colonel Ingersoll tells about, was also exhibited the little coal stove in which the branding irons were heated, along with the bellows.

11. Executioners Swords. These were of numerous types and sometimes highly ornamental. The blade was some two feet, nine inches in length and two and three-quarters inches in width. The handle was made to be grasped by two hands. The condemned was tied down in a chair with the head bowed. An expert with much practice could sever the neck with one blow. The swords were sometimes of Damascus steel of fine ornamental quality inscribed with pious verses such as: "When I upraise the fatal knife God give this sinner eternal life." Or "Oh God, this sinner to thy kingdom take, that he may taste of joy, for Jesus sake."

12. Large Iron Boots. These were put on red hot and then filled with molten lead.

13. Wire Mail Mittens and Hose. These were heated red hot and put on the victim to extort confessions.

14. The Spanish Gag. Used to prevent prisoners from screaming while undergoing torture. One species looked like a bell slit into sections. When thrust in the mouth a spring was released which spread the sections and distended the jaws.

15. The Iron Brank. This was a full head mask, heated before putting on the head of the victim. It had funnels at the orifices of the ears for convenient introduction of hot lead. It was highly recommended by the Holy Inquisition..



Below is a picture of the ??heretic??s fork?. With the four sharp points rammed deep into the flesh under the chin and into the bone of the sternum, the fork prevented all movement of the head and allowed the victim only to murmur, in a barely audible voice, ??abiuro? (??I recant?, engraved on one side of the fork). If instead he still refused, and if the Inquisition was the Spanish one, he was held to be an ??impenitent heretic? and, dressed in the characteristic costume, was led to the stake, but with the consolation of the sacrament if extreme unction; if instead it was the Papal Inquisition, he was hanged or burnt, without the benefit of the pretty costume but still with that of proper Christian rites.
http://www.torture-museum.com/heretic-fork.htm

The Judas Cradle. This procedure has remained essentially unchanged from the Middle Ages until today. The victim is hoisted up in the manner shown in the accompanying illustration, and lowered onto the point of the pyramid in such a way that his weight rests on the point positioned in the anus, in the vagina, under the scrotum or under the coccyx (the last two or three vertebrae). The executioner, according to the pleasure of the interrogators, could vary the pressure from zero to that of total body weight. The victim can be rocked, or made to fall repeatedly onto the point. The Judas cradle was thus called also in Italian (culla di Giuda) and German (Judaswiege), but in French it was known as la veille, ??the wake? or ??nightwatch?. Nowadays this method enjoys the favour of not a few governments in Latin America and elsewhere, with and without improvements like electrified waist rings and pyramid points. http://www.torture-museum.com/judas.htm
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