Atheism

[Oneironaut]

aiieyaaa.....



alright.

working backwards, pull your head out of your ass. (insult met with insult)

i believe there was a PBS special, or History Channel thing... something on TV, that documented a million or half a million year old corpse, and as for dating rocks, how do you determine the age of molten rock? the age of the earth must be determined from the inside out, such as the tree trunk's rings, and i am quite certian, unless you'd like to prove me wrong, that we have never reached the core with any tools yet, im sure we havent even dug half way down into the earth yet, so how can they know old old this old rock really is?

I'm not going to get into the details of rock-dating, but check this out if you want to know how we estimate the age of the Earth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth

and doubling back, how do you know that there arent any 7 million year old corpses just below our reach?

I said 7 billion, not 7 million. We haven't found any hominids more than a few hundred thousand years old, or any primates more than a few dozen million years old, or any mammals more than a couple hundred million years old. Multicellular life itself is only about 500-600 million years old. It seems extremely unlikely that we're going to find anatomically modern humans that are 14 times as old as the first multicellular organisms and over twice the age of the solar system.

also, 1 million years in the past, we did not need history, and were rapidly devolving into an ignorance to develope it.

One million years ago, we probably couldn't even conceive of such a thing as "history" because we were still primitive primates.

history was origonally useless if we were gods, and if we de evolved, it's logical that history (let alone technology) would later be developed.

There is not one shred of evidence for your "we used to be gods" hypothesis. If you can provide me with some, maybe I'll entertain such speculations.

as for that proving anything, i was thinking more along the lines of how it closer matched what science has proven so far... given that the bible misinterpreted billion.

The Bible does not correlate with the historical record in any way more than could be attributed to the knowledge of a pre-scientific people with some vague ideas about their history.

it shows that we had an accurate understanding of the age of the earth before there was technology that could provide such knowledge.

You have proven nothing of the sort. The universe is not 6,000 years old or 7,000,000,000 years old. The Bible was just plain wrong about the origins of the universe, because they could not have possibly known how it happened.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

im sure the bible was flat out wrong about the origions of the universe it never meantioned teh origions of our galaxy and it's rather vague about the solar system, but it's telling of the age of the earth is likely accurate, and the surface opf the earth is the youngest part of it, and minerals that were likely carried up in volcanic eruptions dont really give us conclusive evidence as to the age of the earth itself, and the ages are still assumptions at best, and are no more or less credible than the bible, not that i give the bible much credit to begin with.

[ADaisyChain]

SSW, here's the thing, the bible says alotta made up stuff. im sure you recognize that. But rock dating does have alot more credebility then some guy taking a guess thousands of years ago.

To deny that is extremely INTENTIONALLY ignorant.

Some science is exact, some science is very close, and some science is just hope.

Rock dating happens to fall into the very close category.

Keep it REEAAAL man. You can make stuff up and all, but stop when it starts to contradict the things we KNOW.

peas. ^.^

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

im "making stuff up" in accordance to two presumptious and theoretical sources:

religion and science.


im picking them apart and putting them back together again in a logical manner (at least to me, and it would take knowing everything i do to udnerstand the logic i guess, and i dont thnk we have 50000 pages of space, and i dont have the time to write and proof read my mind).


taking comparasons between science "the earth is very old" and religion "the earth was made in 7 days".

and given that rock dating only falls under the "very close" catagory, (and not the exact) i think it is safe to say that the bible was correct but mathmatically inaccurate, and science is only close, but mathmatically accurate.


so combining the two, i come up with the earth is VERY OLD in a parrellell to 6.

it took 6 million or billion years just to make the earth. looping back to the bible saying (this is hearsay mind you, i dont know what the bible says or does not say, i never read it) that 1000 years on earth is 1 day in heven.

im inclined bo believe this is accurate at best, and that the true number would have to (scientificly) logically be more closer to million or billion.

and perhaps you have forgotten, but i will remind you:

true wisdom lies in knowing you KNOW nothing.


you cannot ever rely on anything and expect it to be true or real, somewhere along the line, something will contradict something else that we "know".

humans think, they do not know. and therefore we can only think we know.

of course, when you truly know, you wont think you know; you'll KNOW you know.

it's pronounced k'now now. lol

[CocaCola]

Meh... no one will ever be convinced otherwise about their beliefs... so lets just say that yeah... THERE IS A GOD AND IT CREATED EVERYTHING. It wasn't gases... it wasn't physics... wtf is physics, A LIE that is what it is... no no no, everything is controlled by the HAND OF GOD. That's what it is. And invisable hand that spins the Earth around it's orbit and that plants seeds to grow trees to give us air to breath but wait, maybe air doesn't exist! MAYBE IT'S GOD BREATH THAT WE BREATH! YES, THAT'S IT! I HAVE THE ANSWER!!

[Oneironaut]

im sure the bible was flat out wrong about the origions of the universe it never meantioned teh origions of our galaxy and it's rather vague about the solar system, but it's telling of the age of the earth is likely accurate, and the surface opf the earth is the youngest part of it, and minerals that were likely carried up in volcanic eruptions dont really give us conclusive evidence as to the age of the earth itself, and the ages are still assumptions at best, and are no more or less credible than the bible, not that i give the bible much credit to begin with.

How could the Bible possibly know such things? I mean, if a people had such extensive knowledge of their history to know the actual age of the Earth, why couldn't they write it down right? Where's the evidence that the Earth really is 7 billion years old? If we can't know this information now, how could people thousands of years ago know it? Did God break his rule of not revealing himself? If so, why didn't he correct anybody when they wrote down the wrong number?

[CocaCola]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale

^^^

[Oneironaut]

taking comparasons between science "the earth is very old" and religion "the earth was made in 7 days".

How far are you willing to take this analogy? If a "day" is really a billion years long, and this is what the Bible is describing, you would have the history of the earth looking something like this:
7,000,000,000-6,000,000,000 years ago: the "heaven", the earth and light come into existence
6,000,000,000-5,000,000,000 years ago: "Heaven" is invented (a different one from the first one, apparently)
5,000,000,000-4,000,000,000 years ago: the first landmasses are formed, as well as plants
4,000,000,000-3,000,000,000 years ago: the stars, the Sun and the Moon are invented
3,000,000,000-2,000,000,000 years ago: birds and water animals come into existence
2,000,000,000-1,000,000,000 years ago: land animals come into existence, including humans
1,000,000,000 years ago-now: God rests

Now obviously that's not how things actually happened. Plants could not have possibly existed for a billion years before the Sun existed, for example. Birds evolved from land animals, and the whale, which was supposedly created with the other water animals, also evolved from land animals. The first stars are much older than the Earth. All elements heavier than hydrogen and helium come from stars. That's how they got here. It's ridiculous to state that the Earth, almost exclusively made out of such heavier elements, was the only thing in the universe for the first 3 billion years of existence.

and given that rock dating only falls under the "very close" catagory, (and not the exact) i think it is safe to say that the bible was correct but mathmatically inaccurate, and science is only close, but mathmatically accurate.

How is it that they could screw up the actual history of the planet so much yet get the date right (only they accidentally wrote thousand where they meant billion)? Did humans keep time for billions of years? Did they keep a calendar system for billions of years and yet not carve anything about it into any rocks anywhere that we've been able to find? Why is it that they maintained a low-tech society for 7 billion years and only in the past 10,000 years developed civilization? Or have there been previous civilizations that didn't leave any archaeological evidence whatsoever? If you're going to state that the human race is as old as the Earth and the Earth is 7,000,000,000 years old, you have a lot of explaining to do to explain why the historical record doesn't make this obvious to us.

so combining the two, i come up with the earth is VERY OLD in a parrellell to 6.

it took 6 million or billion years just to make the earth. looping back to the bible saying (this is hearsay mind you, i dont know what the bible says or does not say, i never read it) that 1000 years on earth is 1 day in heven.

Where do you get this information? You admit that you don't give the Bible much credit, yet you're using it to determine the date of the universe over known science? And then you're trying to state that the Bible got the dates wrong. That's gotta be the weirdest form of Creationism I've ever heard of. And you're not even trying to make it fit into how old we know the Earth is. How do you know the Earth is 6 million or 6 billion years old? Again, I think you're just making stuff up.

im inclined bo believe this is accurate at best, and that the true number would have to (scientificly) logically be more closer to million or billion.

Scientifically? Where's the science here? You're just making guesses without substantiating them. That's not science. The earth is obviously more than 6,000 years old, but there's no evidence to suggest it's 6 million or 6 billion years old. Why is the Bible any more correct than any other culture's creation myth regarding this? Lots of different cultures have lots of different dates for the age of the planet, you know. And I bet you could come up with theories about how they "accidentally misinterpreted" the real date that they had spent so much effort into recording as the eons went by. Think about it. You're proposing that people kept track of how much time passed for 6 million or 6 billion years, without a trace of such a calendar system surviving, except for one date in an ancient book which was written wrong for some reason. Why didn't they say "The universe is 6,025,687 years old" or something like that? If they were able to keep track of how old the universe was so accurately for so many years, why did they suddenly screw it up at the last minute?

and perhaps you have forgotten, but i will remind you:

true wisdom lies in knowing you KNOW nothing.

you cannot ever rely on anything and expect it to be true or real, somewhere along the line, something will contradict something else that we "know".

So? That doesn't mean we just need to throw out what we know whenever somebody else comes up with an alternative hypothesis. We need to base our beliefs on facts and only change them when facts show that our original explanation is no longer the most plausible. When somebody comes up with a wacky idea that runs in the face of common sense and provides no evidence to back it up, it's safe to ignore it for better substantiated theories.

humans think, they do not know. and therefore we can only think we know.

of course, when you truly know, you wont think you know; you'll KNOW you know.

it's pronounced k'now now. lol

Nothing can be proven 100%. But we can get close. And the fields of geology and cosmology have determined the age of the planet and the universe to a much more accurate extent than a layman making guesses based on an ancient text he hasn't even read.

[CocaCola]

Wisdom lies in learning, man... knowing is the other part afterwards. None of us here knows what is truly up otherwise we would be arguing about it. Stoner Wolf, no... YOU'RE WRONG. Just as anyone else... to say otherwise proves that you bible humping Jesus freaks are... funny.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

How far are you willing to take this analogy? If a "day" is really a billion years long, and this is what the Bible is describing, you would have the history of the earth looking something like this:
7,000,000,000-6,000,000,000 years ago: the "heaven", the earth and light come into existence
6,000,000,000-5,000,000,000 years ago: "Heaven" is invented (a different one from the first one, apparently)
5,000,000,000-4,000,000,000 years ago: the first landmasses are formed, as well as plants
4,000,000,000-3,000,000,000 years ago: the stars, the Sun and the Moon are invented
3,000,000,000-2,000,000,000 years ago: birds and water animals come into existence
2,000,000,000-1,000,000,000 years ago: land animals come into existence, including humans
1,000,000,000 years ago-now: God rests

Now obviously that's not how things actually happened. Plants could not have possibly existed for a billion years before the Sun existed, for example. Birds evolved from land animals, and the whale, which was supposedly created with the other water animals, also evolved from land animals. The first stars are much older than the Earth. All elements heavier than hydrogen and helium come from stars. That's how they got here. It's ridiculous to state that the Earth, almost exclusively made out of such heavier elements, was the only thing in the universe for the first 3 billion years of existence.

How is it that they could screw up the actual history of the planet so much yet get the date right (only they accidentally wrote thousand where they meant billion)? Did humans keep time for billions of years? Did they keep a calendar system for billions of years and yet not carve anything about it into any rocks anywhere that we've been able to find? Why is it that they maintained a low-tech society for 7 billion years and only in the past 10,000 years developed civilization? Or have there been previous civilizations that didn't leave any archaeological evidence whatsoever? If you're going to state that the human race is as old as the Earth and the Earth is 7,000,000,000 years old, you have a lot of explaining to do to explain why the historical record doesn't make this obvious to us.


Where do you get this information? You admit that you don't give the Bible much credit, yet you're using it to determine the date of the universe over known science? And then you're trying to state that the Bible got the dates wrong. That's gotta be the weirdest form of Creationism I've ever heard of. And you're not even trying to make it fit into how old we know the Earth is. How do you know the Earth is 6 million or 6 billion years old? Again, I think you're just making stuff up.

Scientifically? Where's the science here? You're just making guesses without substantiating them. That's not science. The earth is obviously more than 6,000 years old, but there's no evidence to suggest it's 6 million or 6 billion years old. Why is the Bible any more correct than any other culture's creation myth regarding this? Lots of different cultures have lots of different dates for the age of the planet, you know. And I bet you could come up with theories about how they "accidentally misinterpreted" the real date that they had spent so much effort into recording as the eons went by. Think about it. You're proposing that people kept track of how much time passed for 6 million or 6 billion years, without a trace of such a calendar system surviving, except for one date in an ancient book which was written wrong for some reason. Why didn't they say "The universe is 6,025,687 years old" or something like that? If they were able to keep track of how old the universe was so accurately for so many years, why did they suddenly screw it up at the last minute?


So? That doesn't mean we just need to throw out what we know whenever somebody else comes up with an alternative hypothesis. We need to base our beliefs on facts and only change them when facts show that our original explanation is no longer the most plausible. When somebody comes up with a wacky idea that runs in the face of common sense and provides no evidence to back it up, it's safe to ignore it for better substantiated theories.

Nothing can be proven 100%. But we can get close. And the fields of geology and cosmology have determined the age of the planet and the universe to a much more accurate extent than a layman making guesses based on an ancient text he hasn't even read.

i am working on tidbits. keeping a .txt notepad open and trying to unload my mind on it.


in about a month, i might have something ready to be read, untill then, it's not going to help me to try to explain anything, because every time i explain one aspect of reality, it opens up more questions based on the relation it has to do with science and history.


and you'd have to take to what i said to answer some of your own questions lol.


we never NEEDED history, because we were de-evolving from GODS.

and the bible is largely inaccurate too, mostly in chronology and mathmatics.