Religion, war and violence

[weirdo79]

Thanks again ermi , Prevented me from having to essay . I hate when people compare any sort of faith to any sort of logic. My favourite is "you have faith in your logic dont you?"! That one is my fave fallacy (from any "faithful believer")

Between you and Flesh I dont even have to post really .


SSW thats more like it (except the worshipping anything part) nothing stops you from being spiritual without accepting science and reality as well . :rasta:

It's just the whole illusion's are illusions thing that just doesnt add up (everything can't be an illusion as many have pointed out before other than myself). But striving for the answers is what makes us open minded . Not deciding we "have them all" already......

weirdo79 Reviewed by weirdo79 on 12-09-2005. Religion, war and violence Religious people like to claim that their religion is the one that is going to bring peace to the world, or that their religion in one of many peace-bringing religions out there. They say that followers of their religion, believers in their god(s), donators to their church will be infused with a sense of peace and tranquility and will not want to do harm unto men. Yet in the real world, the history of religious dogma has been the story of constant warfare and strife. Even now we see horrible Rating: 5

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

i retain a spiritual logic, which can be chalked up to faith, as it is only proven on an individual scale; you have to experiance it yourself to prove it to yourself, and you can prove it only to your own self.

it is like astral projection, you cannot prove to anyone else that you were, indeed, out of body.

[weirdo79]

Actually if you read up on Astral Projection you can , apparently many are supposed to be able to see the silver cord as well some have claimed ability to move solid objects in their transitory state. Unfortunately never under clinical conditions nor able to guess right something (such as an upheld card) while claiming to be in an astral state (and then returning to tell someone what the card said)

Faith and logic are mutually exclusive you've gotta keep the personal definitions out of it if you want anyone to even give it more than a remote glance. Schizophreniac's perceive things that arent there....does that mean they are?.......(even though 2 different schizo's see two different things?....are they both right?)

[Oneironaut]

I see Buddhism as more a of a philosphy (and so apparently did the "buddha") thats probably why it didnt go the same road as others (that were religions).

Great post One ,

I agree. Same goes for Taoism. These two religions/philosophies don't really concern themselves with the supernatural and pretending to know things they could not possibly know. Rather, they concern themselves with life here on Earth and how we can make the world a better place for ourselves and for others. They don't really have anything to "prove" through violence.

But the question is, why did they survive in the face of the warlike religions? Well, if we look at the really successful warlike religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism) we see that they come from places of high civilization, that is, people with the technology to use weapons capable of threatening other peoples into conversion and slaying those who don't comply. However, the places that Taoism and Buddhism have spread (China, Southeast Asia, Korea, Japan) these places were too far away for the warlike religions to invade, and the Chinese, who had effective cultural control of East Asia, were far too advanced to be forcibly converted by other peoples. In India, however, where Buddhism originated but Hinduism was predominant, we see Buddhism has almost completely died out under the influence of Hinduism. When Buddhism spread to East Asia, there was no pre-existing religion per se; just Confucianism, which was again really just a philosophy.

I have optimism in the future of humanity. I think the responsibility of having to maintain a technological society will force people to turn to science and thus to critical thinking as a means of solving problems. In this age of widespread scientific understanding and critical thought, I suspect that religions like Christianity and Islam will surely die out since they make wild claims about the origins of the universe that don't have any evidence for them. But philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism may very well survive, since as general life philosophies they are not the sort of things that will disintegrate when rational thought is applied. When Buddha or Lao Zi says something, he is saying it as a suggestion, not as absolute undeniable fact like Mohammed or Joseph Smith. Buddhism and Taoism are based on real life experiences by people in the physical world, rather than the superstitions of a few "prophets" who claim they have the answers to all the unsolved and unsolvable questions. That may be what ultimately secures their continued survival in the future.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

Actually if you read up on Astral Projection you can , apparently many are supposed to be able to see the silver cord as well some have claimed ability to move solid objects in their transitory state. Unfortunately never under clinical conditions nor able to guess right something (such as an upheld card) while claiming to be in an astral state (and then returning to tell someone what the card said)

Faith and logic are mutually exclusive you've gotta keep the personal definitions out of it if you want anyone to even give it more than a remote glance. Schizophreniac's perceive things that arent there....does that mean they are?.......(even though 2 different schizo's see two different things?....are they both right?)

the question at hand, with the schizophrenics percieving two different things is not what they see, but weather or not they both see something in the same place at the same time, or under the same circumstances.

the mind is able to make some things appear any way it wants, untill ignorance, fears, and doubt are cast aside with clarity.

[weirdo79]

I give up on you SSW , as I said in the other thread your constant double standard and your tweaking of definitions to suit your point (but only at the time) is indicative that you really have no idea what your talking about. Try just one philosphy class or join a debate team you need to learn consistency more than anything. It's clearly implied they at the same time would perceive something different in the same place (if you couldnt see that(as it was the main part of the arguement without it , it wouldnt even be what we were discussing) then you obviously tried to twist my words to fit your point, I find you in contempt of "logic" (instead of contempt of court, lil joke, VERY little ).

"the mind is able to make some things appear any way it wants, untill ignorance, fears, and doubt are cast aside with clarity"

There I quoted you , the mind is not a separate entity WE are the mind, Try a neurology book please(or just speak to a high school biology teacher for christsakes). Also if I want Red to appear blue , it doesnt happen sorry, if some part of my brain is damaged or my ocular nerves (or even my cornea) PERHAPS possible but otherwise nope. No matter how much I try to convince myself of it once again science prevails. But I forget those are just simple illusions of science....that can be repeated ad nauseum with the same results everytime.....for everyone......

Consistency my friend stop the shifting

[MudFu]

SSW I think I might take you up on that offer. A relgion of no name and no specific God. Existing is enough for me. And sorry guys you can't break my faith with your words of logic. I wouldn't be very faithful if I changed my beliefs based on ideas or others. You are right that Faith is not proof but I still choose to have faith because faith can do wonders for you. I have faith in many things other then a religous faith. I have faith in humankind. I have faith that no matter what comes out way, we can do the best to ensure the best. I have faith that some good is in people (my sence of good because I know good/bad is a P.O.V). Faith keeps me going in hard times. It gives me a reason to go on. Faith and Logic maybe very different but faith is just as important. I am a logical person to a sence. I hate that I am logical because it holds me down. Faith will bring me to a better place. Even if I am wrong, I do not care because I have spent my life so far looking at something in many ways. If you think faith don't make sence well...logic do not always make sence. We think it do because that is what we are told and what we see. We can see wrong and we can learn wrong. Remember, there was a time that it was logic that the world was flat.

[MudFu]

Oh and as for the red and blue. how about if you are colour blind? Then your logic is wrong... You learn something is red but someone else learns it is it is blue. Basicly they see red and call it blue but you will never be able to tell them different because you see it as blue also. Which one is wrong? The colou blind person or you

[Polymirize]

so, if I'm hearing this correctly, it sounds like your problem is much less with religion and more with the closeminded tendency to make realworld truthclaims out of religious "knowledge". As was already discussed, buddhism and taoism are much more philosophical in outlook, or at least, neither claims to truth in such a way that renders other religious views false.

Is the problem religion then? of the fundamentalist outlook?

[weirdo79]

Colour blind is a biological error...sorry it fits my definition perfectly I was waiting for that Mud, thanks for not dissappointing me . I would be right as human eyeballs are built just like mine. (as are yours unless you have errors in them.....)

But your claims of faith for all those things is simply disingenuous(to me), Are you positing that you simply believe those things with no evidence(not the god one). Which means not taking into account ANY factual information such as the nature of humans to help each other etc. That wouldnt be faith it would be a logical conclusion (however if you do have faith in all those things without any shred of evidence then yes it is faith otherwise nope....) And , power to you , I just prefer to perceive a mistake and correct rather than assuming it will fix it itself.

Your world is flat logic is false as well (in fact a complete fabrication) it was never logical nor did anyone without a religious bent posit that....sorry(remember the church wanted to burn galileo but thankfully he was friend's with some high muckety mucks in the church). Even the ancient greeks knew it was round....it's called math they were good at it.....(also the simple logic they saw a sail coming over the horizon before the hull.....). Nice try on the defamation of logic too bad it doesnt hold up. There's lots of assumptions religious types make that have no bearing in reality. Bill O Reilly and Pat Robertson are prime examples of those that do it daily and make alot of money doing it as well....