Media and the war.

[XTC]

Iraq battle stress worse than WWII
The Sunday Times November 06, 2005

MICHAEL SMITH

SENIOR army doctors have warned that troops in Iraq are suffering levels of battle stress not experienced since the second world war because of fears that if they shoot an insurgent, they will end up in court.

The two senior Royal Army Medical Corps officers, one of whom is a psychologist, have recently returned from Basra, where they said they counselled young soldiers who feared a military police investigation as much as they did the insurgents.

The revelations follow the collapse last week of the court martial of seven paratroopers accused of murdering an Iraqi who died near al- Amarah just after the war and amid signs of a dramatic drop in morale among frontline infantry soldiers.

The doctorsâ?? warnings came in post-operational reports submitted by senior officers to their formation commanders after serving in a battle zone. They are exceptional because of their content.

One source said: â??There doesnâ??t appear to be any overt consideration or understanding of the pressures that our soldiers are under.

â??The unpopularity of the war at home and a belief that firing their rifles in virtually any circumstances is likely to see them end up in court are sapping morale.â?�

One corporal said that troops arriving in Basra were confronted by warnings from the Royal Military Police. â??They make it clear that any and every incident will be investigated. It is also made clear that if you shoot someone, you will face an inquiry that could take up to a year.

â??The faces of the young lads straight out of training drop as the fear of being investigated strikes home and many ask whose side the RMP are on.â?�

Although the levels of fighting in Iraq are nowhere near those of some of the bloodiest battles of the second world war, such as the battle of the bulge or Kohima, the much more complex situation that the British troops face is pushing up stress levels just as far.

The combination of knowing that death might come at any time from a roadside bomb and that shooting back at Iraqis who attack them might result in their being court-martialled is putting immense pressure on young soldiers.

The doctors described morale in some units as very low with soldiers cynically suggesting they needed a solicitor with them before they shot back at any Iraqi who attacked them.

Many frontline infantry soldiers were in survival mode and had the impression that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is not supporting them and nobody in the UK cares about what is happening in Iraq, the officers said.

This weekend senior MoD officials sought to counter the damage done to morale after the collapse of the court martial by revealing that John Reid, the defence secretary, had ordered an urgent review of whether the MoD is fulfilling its duty of care to soldiers facing legal action.

There are signs that it is already too late, with more than 5,370 infantry soldiers buying themselves out of the army in the past three years rather than be posted back to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Divorce rates have soared. The wives of soldiers who return from Iraq complain that their husbands are suffering from exhaustion and stress but refuse to seek medical help for fear that it will blight their promotion prospects.

The wife of one officer based in Germany told friends he was â??an aggressive wreckâ?� after returning from Iraq, shouting at the children and suffering from what she thought was a nervous disorder. He declined medical help and a month after returning from Basra was sent to Kabul.

Not least among the concerns within the army is the fact that cases are taking so long to come to court martial. Three members of the Irish Guards and a Coldstream Guard who stand accused of the manslaughter of an Iraqi who allegedly drowned in a canal in May 2003 will not stand trial until May next year.

Corporal Scott Evans, 32, the most senior of the paratroopers acquitted last week, said that they felt betrayed by the army: â??Weâ??ve been badly hung out to dry.

â??The army is your family, isnâ??t it? You expect your
family to look after you through thick and thin, but they betrayed us. It seems that in the armyâ??s eyes you are guilty until proven innocent.â?�

One army officer said Evans was â??just summing up what everybody feels. No one seems to care. We feel like weâ??ve lost public sympathy because of all these allegationsâ?�

I may not agree with the war, but I support our troops, and I hate the fact that media sometimes nakes our guys look like the bad people. It's a damn war, no one understands what it is like to go through that shit day in and day out other than the tropps. I don't think the media or anyone else besides our troops can decide what is "wrong" and what is "right" during a battle. Like that kid who get in the public's eye cause he shot an un-armed enemy. The enemy has been known to play dead only to have himself blown up when our troops check for vitals. This shit pisses me off like no other.

XTC Reviewed by XTC on 11-08-2005. Media and the war. Iraq battle stress worse than WWII The Sunday Times November 06, 2005 MICHAEL SMITH SENIOR army doctors have warned that troops in Iraq are suffering levels of battle stress not experienced since the second world war because of fears that if they shoot an insurgent, they will end up in court. The two senior Royal Army Medical Corps officers, one of whom is a psychologist, have recently returned from Basra, where they said they counselled young soldiers who feared a military police Rating: 5

[XTC]

ANother thing with all this "torture" stuff going around. Alright, it might not be the 'right' thing to do, but the only people who should know about this stuff are government authorites. When stuff like this surfaces on all the network news and on the net, it adds fuel to the fire. Makes our enemy hates us even more.

[B.Basher]

When stuff like this surfaces on all the network news and on the net, it adds fuel to the fire. Makes our enemy hates us even more.

So maybe they should just stop fucking doing it. I could care less if a soldier gets sent down for torture, he's no worse then the enemy he's so righteously fighting.

Your right, we should send them flowers and see if they hate us a little less :thumbsup: . It's a lose/lose situation if you ask me. People are scared out of their shit thanks to how much the media and government have built up the apparent threat more then any number of terrorist attacks ever could. If the media are going to broadcast anything, it might as well be a genuine story about the flaws of our side. It's stuff the public have a right to know and not be left in the dark with fake optimism.

Not that public say counts for anything anymore. Like I said, lose/lose situation.

[Torog]

So maybe they should just stop f*cking doing it. I could care less if a soldier gets sent down for torture, he's no worse then the enemy he's so righteously fighting.

Your right, we should send them flowers and see if they hate us a little less :thumbsup: . It's a lose/lose situation if you ask me. People are scared out of their shit thanks to how much the media and government have built up the apparent threat more then any number of terrorist attacks ever could. If the media are going to broadcast anything, it might as well be a genuine story about the flaws of our side. It's stuff the public have a right to know and not be left in the dark with fake optimism.

Not that public say counts for anything anymore. Like I said, lose/lose situation.

Howdy BB,

During WW2,we didn't have a liberal media running around writing stories about what's wrong with us and our system of goverment,instead ,they talked about what was wrong with the enemie's system of goverment..they didn't go around trying to destroy the resolve of folks trying to defend freedom and democracy.

I think that the media needs to focus on what's wrong with islamofascism and muslim jihadism,instead of aiding and abbetting terrorists and the countries that support and train them. The media needs to start reporting the good things that have been done and the good things being done,by the Coalition in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Democracy will always have it's share of problems..but un-checked islamofascism,is far worse. Either you can support democracy,freedom,choice and equality..or you can support islamofascism,that's the choice that you've been handed by the terrorists and muslim jihadists..if ya don't convert to Islam..they're coming for ya..you don't have the choice to be neutral..eventually,they'll come for the Swiss even..probably regret the heck out of it--but that's what mohammed commands in the koran.

Have a good one ...

[Euphoric]

What is this, the Crusades?

[eg420ne]

Torog=Christian Taliban...torog below take a look he wants all brown people dead and to take over the world like a good christian..

[Tholiak]

Its official..your a total idiot ^^

[B.Basher]

Either you can support democracy,freedom,choice and equality..or you can...

Uhh, yeah. I'm gonna stop you there, 'cause i've only heard it a million times before. "They're coming for us, we're all gonna turn into Muslims". What are they going to do Torog, fall into the sea "Land of the Dead" style and just walk to the shores of our countries?

Open your head for a second and you'll find it's not case of choosing between "freedom" or not. As a Texan, I doubt you come by many people who are opposed to the war, personally i'm yet to meet someone who isn't. It's a case of recognising the bloodsucking behaviour of the powers that be during a supposed time of crisis. Don't even try comparing this "war" (if that's even the correct word) to WW2 . This is the information age, if our own side are acting like the supposed animals they're fighting, I want to know about it. You probably shrugged off the whole torture issue when it happened in the US. When British troops were accused of torturing Iraqis, my opinion was it was only right for justice to be done. Just try and give me a legitimate reason why not, without sounding like a total hypocrite.

[Fengzi]

"They're coming for us, we're all gonna turn into Muslims". What are they going to do Torog, fall into the sea "Land of the Dead" style and just walk to the shores of our countries?

.

Yes, that is exactly what will happen. But you do not need to fear Button, for we are witness to the Second coming of the son of God. He goes by the name of Bush and comes from a new holy land called Texas. He will lead the chosen ones, not just Texans but all who are close minded, to conquer the infidels. The very sounds of their Bible thumping will cause the Muslim horde to flee in terror. And if that doesn't work, there's always lots of 18 year olds that he can give a gun to and send in harms way.

[B.Basher]

Yes, that is exactly what will happen. But you do not need to fear Button, for we are witness to the Second coming of the son of God. He goes by the name of Bush and comes from a new holy land called Texas. He will lead the chosen ones, not just Texans but all who are close minded, to conquer the infidels. The very sounds of their Bible thumping will cause the Muslim horde to flee in terror. And if that doesn't work, there's always lots of 18 year olds that he can give a gun to and send in harms way.

Brilliant.