I just got a 4' 4 bulb T5 HO for the mothers and clones today and damn thats bright for a flouro. I expect them to do very well for veg. from all I read about them. They're in a 2'x5' closet so HID is out of the question and these are perfect. 20,000 lumens, thats as much as a 250 W MH. At 216 W, a little energy savings and ALOT cooler!!! I love them already.:thumbsup::thumbsup: