LED grow lights... input please.

[Blumen]

(Couldn't edit anymore, but here what should be added to the post above

In addition: I don't have any of the problems NASA has to fight with. I have gravity, so hot air rises and cooling is much more easy therefor (let alone get rid heat in space at all). I get a parcel of LED for the same money I'd get a CFL delivered for. I don't have that limited space. I could build a 1Ã?1m panel. I bet in the ISS you have to beg for that amount of space big time or pay millions. 20 Luxeon Rebel high-power LEDs (all fitting on the SIM-card of your Mobile) are able to create 3600lm, I have a cool white CFL 4" here, 3350lm. NASA isn't the quickest sometimes, they often just have to depend on tested (aka old) stuff. Changing the lighting system in ISS isn't the same like at home. Again (if possible at all) millions of $ for the sockets alone (you mentioned the freight costs).

So I do see LEDs in (grow-)space very much so

Blumen Reviewed by Blumen on 01-14-2008. LED grow lights... input please. Hello guys, I'm exchanging eMails with a representative from a LED company. I asked him if they could produce a custom light for growing, and here's what he told me: Our options are as follow: 940nm, 850nm, 660nm, 630nm, 610nm, 590nm 570nm, 530nm, 510nm, 470nm, 460nm, 400nm and a total of 64 LEDs in the bulb. Rating: 5

[SnSstealth]

wow another like forum...brownthumb!!! another believer!!! check out mine man...im running 3 procyon 100s in a 2 x 8 closet...got 20 3 gal pots, 18 are jack herer x bubbleberry the rest are bag seed. 25 in all, got a few doubled up...love friday, high times article on the UFO is very good. the tests ive seen on green pine lane, by sfortier, show the procyon 100 to be awesome. he will gladly answer questions but DO NOT mention our favorite plant. he grew tomatoes and deosnt wish for any pot talk.please respect him guys, he's been very helpful for us on this LED endeavor. hopefully more of us will be starting this so we can revolutionize growing for us all.

peace and pot
whiskeytango
SnStealth


opie yutts, weedhound and rocksteady have been very helpful, we may need each others imput as we get further into our cycles

[Ziggy Stardust]

Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting

this dude is SMART and on top of the LED issue and this forum is responded to by many LED industry wireheads who are on top of the whole game ..... lotsa tech stuff...LOTS of pics...lotsa spec

theres mention of both the high watt (100 rather than the single 14 OR 28W panels) LED products UFO and PROCYLON i suggest that all those who are posting here look at the site these dudes are posting to and rethink a lot of the stuff weve been considering and reasoning. after taking a look ck out what one of em passed on to me......out of his concern and our respect im not gonna name his (unless someday he wants to be famous).

as he is the UNKNOWN i still wanna thank him and give him his props

Ziggy,

I've spent some time looking over your forum from the link you provided.

These are my opinions, but please remember I'm just learning and have a long way to go. So, my comments are based on this and what I've found out by my testing which is all public for you to see. I could be wrong and reserve the right to be!

Anyway:

Forget about the small led bulbs and Ebay 14 watt panels like Flower Forcer, Grow-tec, HTG, etc They are not efficient nor powerful enough to do the job.

The Luxeon, Cree, LedEngin, etc, 1W - 15w high powers are the only way to succeed and are 30-100 times more powerful and much more efficient than the above.

The below is how I approach my grows. If I stick to these rules. I do well.

Because of my emphasis of controlling Blue/Red ratios, none of the lights sold are perfect yet for both stages. The UFO and Procyon are great foundations right now and have the power to do great things. However, if they had blue/red adjustments they would be much better. I'm finding I will need to suplement these lights with 3 watt High Power single red or blue bulbs as needed. The UFO tomato grow journal shows this theory working well and results quite quickly in the photos.

This is also the reason I am building my own high power light. I have a lot of controls built in.


Veg Stage:

Nutrients - grow formula

Lights: 18 Hours

I, and most of the knowledgable folks that correspond with me and others I can trust for honest opinions seem to be landing on a 1/3 ratio of LED to HID with pretty decent results. So far this ratio proves pretty good if not better than HID in the Vegetative stage only.

This means if you are challenging a 400 watt MH in a veg stage contest, you would need 125W of high power LEDS run efficiently, meaning the electronics are designed to run the LEDS at top performance and temperature controlled meaning the most LUMENS per watt.

Most important - The Blue to Red ratio is heavy in blue. This is the biggest mistake I see with LED growers. They are not using enough blue in the veg stage! Possibly 50/50 red/blue to start seeds and be at 60/40 - 75/25 red/blue at end of Veg Stage. It is important here to keep a balance of red/blue for fastest leaf/stem/root growth balance. Stretch control is your key. If too much stretch, your later success is doubtful.

My findings: Root growth suffers if not enough red. Stretch happens not enough blue. Leaves are too small if too much red. Leaves are to big if too much blue. Use these indicators to adjust blue-to-red ratios.

Blossom Stage:

Nutrients: Bloom formula.

Lights: 12 hours

This is most likely a 90/10 - 80/20 red/blue ratio. Red needs to be strong. Bring the blue down until all growth stops, but maintains good leaf and stem strength. You want minimal veg growth, but maintain good plant foundation. At this point, lower the blue to stress plant slightly. This should force blossom stage and if stressed properly, good blossom performance. Once number of blossoms are satisfactory, increase blue back to that point where plant leaves and stems get just healthy looking and strong. This should be about 90/10 - 85/15. This gives me best blossoms on every plant I have tried. However, there is need for improvement. Numbers of blossoms are there, but maturing them is another matter.

Opinion: Blossom stage still needs work, HPS is still better at the 1/3 LED/HID, but I believe from what I've seen, that a lot of bad blossom performance is being caused by stretched veg growth in every LED grow I've seen. You must pay attention to the veg stage to have a good blossom stage.

Future - I also think some orange and possibly some deeper blue will still need to be added, but some high powers in needed ranges have now just come available. I should be testing some of these shortly. a touch of UVB and some IR have not been ruled out and there are good scientific arguments that these are needed. This is proven by the fact that plant growth under the sun using tinted filtered UVB/IR glass is poor in the blossom stage.


now where to from here ???

one last thing if you post there dont say nothing about no ganja weed or shit like that ....lab coats

[SnSstealth]

ziggy, dont know if you've seen, but im doing a grow right now with 25 plants and 3 procyon 100s

[SnSstealth]

[quote=oldsanclem]
Funny facts wind power, photo cells have yet to make ONE CENT.


Yeah wind & solar power don't workostexcuseme:

people are living off of the grid just fine...

[Ziggy Stardust]

do u know how many wind turbine and how much solar and energy is sold back to utilities here in calfi....sayin it dont work dont make ya sound to 'telligent ya kno

[DoDoFoShoDoe]

So if the point im seeing here is to get the correct ammount of Red and Blue ratio during specific stages in the plants growth cycle, does this mean a grower would have to change to color scheme along with it? or would you be able to use the same set-up the entire grow. im sorry if this doesnt make sense im trying to grasp this whole LED concept.

Dodo

[Ziggy Stardust]

from what i read if you watch what your plants are doing (either streaching leaves too large or too small internode spacing) you can actually tweak your ratio and add whatever portion of the spectrum is needed to get maximum growth.

remember once upon a time there was only MH lamps available for indoor growth and look at how the industry has evolved. the author of the above cited report is now working on his own LED matrix BUT what hes doing is making it adjustable so that you can "dial up" what your plants need.

i would imagine like in all such ventures and taking into consideration the need to simplify for marketing and economic reasons, soon someone will develop 2 or possibly 4 different matrix - 2 seedlings and veg stages and 2 flowering stages one for onset to develop more flowering sites and to swell up the buds in the final stage

[SnSstealth]

supposedly the 3 we are using say the red Nms vary. and the blues are set. they did to tests with "tomatoes" too. that was an amazing plant in and of itself...lol im happy with just getting equal yield. all the talk of stronger potency and some of the stuff in the High Times article this month, well....we will see huh. and hell yeah, i wish they would've made it adjustable somehow as far as the blue/red intensity at veg/flowering. we are using these lights all the way through, just changing the time at flowering.

and ziggy, your right on point as far as everything i've read as well. people are saying they wont work cause they were testing with cheap china panels. we have 3 procyons in a 2 x 8 closet...hopin for a hella harvest...lol

[Ziggy Stardust]

i dont know if id risk the entire crop the 1st time around. its not my grow BUT if it was id partition the last 2' of it hang jjust 1 PROCYON and then hang like 2 4ooW HPS lamps over the rest. it seems like - for now theres a lot of manipulation that you need to keep up on - from the report.

....'"Red needs to be strong. Bring the blue down until all growth stops, but maintains good leaf and stem strength....This should force blossom stage and if stressed properly, good blossom performance. Once number of blossoms are satisfactory, increase blue back to that point where plant leaves and stems get just healthy looking and strong.'".

the reasearcher closes his statement by giving this opinion.

.... '"Opinion: Blossom stage still needs work, HPS is still better at the 1/3 LED/HID, but I believe from what I've seen, that a lot of bad blossom performance is being caused by stretched veg growth in every LED grow I've seen. You must pay attention to the veg stage to have a good blossom stage.'".

this we can all understand with the new lights i would think that here what we need to do is make sure they are hung at the right height. refering back to the report at.... Untitled Page the reasearcher did construct a grid to evaluate lumen dispersion at not only reccomended height but several others as well. from looking at it one can see that the optimum is at 24". now i dont know about everyonelse but what we do is keep our babies short (2.5 - 3' tall) asa result if hung at 18" above the canopy most of the nectar part of the plant will be at maximum exposure thru out veg producing maximum results.

as far as claims of better faster bigger i know that will come. what the real concern here should be is power and cooling - i.e. if i can veg w 400w instead of 1200 and flower w 800w instead of 2400ive saved 2/3 on enegry in lighting and at least 75% in cooling and of those two cooling is what should be most considered and of the most importance. ya cant grow killer nugs unless you provide optimum environmental conditions for cannabis thats like 80 - 85 degrees lights on - and the most important 15 degree (or more) drop at lights out. do you have any idea how hard that is to do in july in calif? the NO HEAT LED is what will change the entire face of indoor horticulture.