LED grow lights... input please.

[Blumen]

Correct, at 555nm. Which is green. Which plants need less. That shows how much Lumens help in designing a plant-light

[brownthumb]

I have 14 of those 168 led red/blue mixed bulbs. They are bright, but at the cost of no lateral dispersion; a 5" round array expands to only 24" @ 10' (probably the 15° viewing angle version).
My first attempt was to make a flat grid with a 2.5" gap between staggered rows of bulbs; this was a failure as even 4' away only the area directly under the bulb/array was illuminated.
So I then remounted them so each bulb was touching the 6 adjacent ones; better but only the bulbs directly over the plant were contributing.
Next was an arcade so that the arrays on the sides could be directed at the plant itself; better but the end bulbs were wasted.

My final configuration was/is a cupola affair with 10 bulbs (1680 low power leds) focused on a single plant 5" away from the face of the arrays. There are 2 arrays pointed straight down and the other 8 are individually aimed at a specific spot on the plant and physically placed as close to the top 2 as possible. The entire plant is now well illuminated and flowering strongly, how dense the buds will be is anyone's guess.

To say that this low power led application is cost effective would be a sorry joke, but clearly it is possible even if it cannot be recommended.
Understand that I have the highest possible density of low power leds in 4 sq ft that are illuminating 1 sq ft, so it is also NOT space efficient.
Anyone wanting to use leds should look at the high power ones and bear in mind that commercial panels are far too weak for effective plant growth.

[Opie Yutts]

Hey brownthumb, welcome to the forum and thanks for your input. I'm really glad to get another LED grower in here. Any chance we could see some pictures? I am looking forward to final yield.

[oldsanclem]

I have ejoyed this led thing and its something to do. Now think, if leds worked , industry would be doing it.
Industry wants the most light for the least cost. Industry wants the most light and lower replacment cost. Industry would stand to gain tillions of dollars saved. And industry still uses 48 in florsents, metal halide and hps.
Funny facts wind power, photo cells have yet to make ONE CENT. :yippee:The average loss is 14-25 cents per kwh. (thanks to the poor people trying to save money)(forget the inviromental problems)
Once again OHMS and WATTS wins, and the poor pay.
Note sky lab florsent lights, even they can not efford leds. They can, but not cost effective. Flat panel florsent lighting. Note they have a $10,000 a pound lift off weight cost:jumphappy:, even at that, its not cost effective. Mars systems cost are more and leds cant make it.
:S2:

[Blumen]

Old news, man. The latest NASA groove here. :thumbsup:

[Blumen]

(Couldn't edit anymore, but here what should be added to the post above

In addition: I don't have any of the problems NASA has to fight with. I have gravity, so hot air rises and cooling is much more easy therefor (let alone get rid heat in space at all). I get a parcel of LED for the same money I'd get a CFL delivered for. I don't have that limited space. I could build a 1Ã?1m panel. I bet in the ISS you have to beg for that amount of space big time or pay millions. 20 Luxeon Rebel high-power LEDs (all fitting on the SIM-card of your Mobile) are able to create 3600lm, I have a cool white CFL 4" here, 3350lm. NASA isn't the quickest sometimes, they often just have to depend on tested (aka old) stuff. Changing the lighting system in ISS isn't the same like at home. Again (if possible at all) millions of $ for the sockets alone (you mentioned the freight costs).

So I do see LEDs in (grow-)space very much so

[Opie Yutts]

I have ejoyed this led thing and its something to do. Now think, if leds worked , industry would be doing it.

Industry is doing it. The sign industry for one. There are many cities around the US and the world who have mandated that all electrical signage must be illuminated with non other than LED light. Coming soon to a city near you.

[SnSstealth]

wow another like forum...brownthumb!!! another believer!!! check out mine man...im running 3 procyon 100s in a 2 x 8 closet...got 20 3 gal pots, 18 are jack herer x bubbleberry the rest are bag seed. 25 in all, got a few doubled up...love friday, high times article on the UFO is very good. the tests ive seen on green pine lane, by sfortier, show the procyon 100 to be awesome. he will gladly answer questions but DO NOT mention our favorite plant. he grew tomatoes and deosnt wish for any pot talk.please respect him guys, he's been very helpful for us on this LED endeavor. hopefully more of us will be starting this so we can revolutionize growing for us all.

peace and pot
whiskeytango
SnStealth


opie yutts, weedhound and rocksteady have been very helpful, we may need each others imput as we get further into our cycles

[Ziggy Stardust]

Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting

this dude is SMART and on top of the LED issue and this forum is responded to by many LED industry wireheads who are on top of the whole game ..... lotsa tech stuff...LOTS of pics...lotsa spec

theres mention of both the high watt (100 rather than the single 14 OR 28W panels) LED products UFO and PROCYLON i suggest that all those who are posting here look at the site these dudes are posting to and rethink a lot of the stuff weve been considering and reasoning. after taking a look ck out what one of em passed on to me......out of his concern and our respect im not gonna name his (unless someday he wants to be famous).

as he is the UNKNOWN i still wanna thank him and give him his props

Ziggy,

I've spent some time looking over your forum from the link you provided.

These are my opinions, but please remember I'm just learning and have a long way to go. So, my comments are based on this and what I've found out by my testing which is all public for you to see. I could be wrong and reserve the right to be!

Anyway:

Forget about the small led bulbs and Ebay 14 watt panels like Flower Forcer, Grow-tec, HTG, etc They are not efficient nor powerful enough to do the job.

The Luxeon, Cree, LedEngin, etc, 1W - 15w high powers are the only way to succeed and are 30-100 times more powerful and much more efficient than the above.

The below is how I approach my grows. If I stick to these rules. I do well.

Because of my emphasis of controlling Blue/Red ratios, none of the lights sold are perfect yet for both stages. The UFO and Procyon are great foundations right now and have the power to do great things. However, if they had blue/red adjustments they would be much better. I'm finding I will need to suplement these lights with 3 watt High Power single red or blue bulbs as needed. The UFO tomato grow journal shows this theory working well and results quite quickly in the photos.

This is also the reason I am building my own high power light. I have a lot of controls built in.


Veg Stage:

Nutrients - grow formula

Lights: 18 Hours

I, and most of the knowledgable folks that correspond with me and others I can trust for honest opinions seem to be landing on a 1/3 ratio of LED to HID with pretty decent results. So far this ratio proves pretty good if not better than HID in the Vegetative stage only.

This means if you are challenging a 400 watt MH in a veg stage contest, you would need 125W of high power LEDS run efficiently, meaning the electronics are designed to run the LEDS at top performance and temperature controlled meaning the most LUMENS per watt.

Most important - The Blue to Red ratio is heavy in blue. This is the biggest mistake I see with LED growers. They are not using enough blue in the veg stage! Possibly 50/50 red/blue to start seeds and be at 60/40 - 75/25 red/blue at end of Veg Stage. It is important here to keep a balance of red/blue for fastest leaf/stem/root growth balance. Stretch control is your key. If too much stretch, your later success is doubtful.

My findings: Root growth suffers if not enough red. Stretch happens not enough blue. Leaves are too small if too much red. Leaves are to big if too much blue. Use these indicators to adjust blue-to-red ratios.

Blossom Stage:

Nutrients: Bloom formula.

Lights: 12 hours

This is most likely a 90/10 - 80/20 red/blue ratio. Red needs to be strong. Bring the blue down until all growth stops, but maintains good leaf and stem strength. You want minimal veg growth, but maintain good plant foundation. At this point, lower the blue to stress plant slightly. This should force blossom stage and if stressed properly, good blossom performance. Once number of blossoms are satisfactory, increase blue back to that point where plant leaves and stems get just healthy looking and strong. This should be about 90/10 - 85/15. This gives me best blossoms on every plant I have tried. However, there is need for improvement. Numbers of blossoms are there, but maturing them is another matter.

Opinion: Blossom stage still needs work, HPS is still better at the 1/3 LED/HID, but I believe from what I've seen, that a lot of bad blossom performance is being caused by stretched veg growth in every LED grow I've seen. You must pay attention to the veg stage to have a good blossom stage.

Future - I also think some orange and possibly some deeper blue will still need to be added, but some high powers in needed ranges have now just come available. I should be testing some of these shortly. a touch of UVB and some IR have not been ruled out and there are good scientific arguments that these are needed. This is proven by the fact that plant growth under the sun using tinted filtered UVB/IR glass is poor in the blossom stage.


now where to from here ???

one last thing if you post there dont say nothing about no ganja weed or shit like that ....lab coats

[SnSstealth]

ziggy, dont know if you've seen, but im doing a grow right now with 25 plants and 3 procyon 100s