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Quote Originally Posted by torog

You're just plain wrong..
I disagree. Its not about being right or wrong, its about being open. And believing you are some authority because you were able to reproduce is not open, its condescending and elitist.

if all you do-is spend yer time and effort on looking out only for yerself,your character will be lacking..if the only one you spend yer paycheck on ,is yourself..then you are missing out on a whole slice of Life,your experience..is therefore less. It takes a really good person to have both good character and be single and berift of children,the folks in that situation are not as well-rounded as folks who've had children.
Your world is coming off a little small.

I know a lot of caring, wonderful, selfless people who are not parents. And I know a lot of people that should have been sterilized that are. Becoming selfless and developing character is not a reward for reproducing. That comes from within, and takes years to skill. You dont need to have a child to develop those kinds of skills, and its presumptuous and narrow-minded and self-serving to believe you are an authority, you possess more character, more ability to love others, and therefore are better than people (well, a group of people) because you chose to have a child.

Children do not bring forth the gift of dignity. Thats a gift you give yourself, and you dont need a child in order to recieve it. Sure a child may be a great encouragement to get yourself in check, but that definitely isnt a guarantee like you seemingly believe.

Man is capable of greatness,because we were created in God's Image..we did not create God..God created us..it is foolish to place our trust in our fellow man,as no man is perfect..that don't make me 'superior' to anyone..it just means that I'm wise enough to realize that. Trust..but verify ! I ain't into being superior to others or feeding my ego,I seek humilty and denial of ego,and I thank God everyday,for my many blessings..when was the last time that you were grateful for anything ? I seek to raise others up-not bring em down..I'm an optimist-not a pessimist.
And I live my life the exact same way...except the not trusting man and the God business. Faith in God is not a prerequisite for being a good, humble person. Assumptions that those of us who are non-believers are not gracious or grateful for what we have is like saying your enlightenment you have recieved in life has more value over others enlightenment which may not involve the typical "found Jesus" scenerio. I understand you believe that the road to Jesus is the road to humility and grace, but understand that others dont necessarily feel that way, and speaking for myself I dont appreciate people attempting to take away my value as a person, my personal sense of dignity, my self-respect, and my ability to be humble, gracious, and selfless because I dont believe what they do.


Being faithful to God,requires much more thinking and work,than being a self-serving humanist,
Well, thats just a matter of opinion, obivously our opinions differ, however I know there are many believers out there who are incredibly thoughtful, loving, caring people who people should really strive to be like. Being a good person is not easy, being a person with self-respect and character and honesty is not easy. Religion can definitely make an impact on people for the better, Im not denying that. But, that said, it can also make people condescending, elitist, and disrespectful of others. I understand people are sucummbing to natural human behavior in that aspect, but it makes for a bad name for people of faith, and not something I would wish to be a part of. So when I see someone exhibiting those bad behaviors because they seemingly feel they have an authority to do so because of their faith, it really makes my skin crawl...and I want to shake them.

I ain't a Christian because I wanted to stop thinking,rather,I seek the Truth and am interested and dedicated to my spiritual evolution..those who deny God,are the ones who've decided to stop thinking..and join the parade of debaucherers and sinners. Being a Christian,ain't about being superior to others,rather-it's about being humble and grateful.
I do believe that that being humble and grateful is exactly what being a christian is all about. The church can really help people get the tools they need to be successful and feel confident and have self-worth...tools that every person needs, really. There is no denying that, and that is a positive in the church that should be promoted more.
Saying things that sound fear-motivated and self-serving however is repellant. It puts those that aren't believers on the defensive, rather than willing to embrace your beliefs.

As far as who's faith makes 'em think the hardest, I do find it difficult that embracing the Bible would require much thinking, like Ghost said, "outside the box." Although embracing something that most can agree lacks logic probably constitutes as thinking outside the box.
For all I know you may have studied every possibility out there and embraced the one that made the most sense and works the best for you. Bravo to you if you really did take the time to explore all possibilities. Im still exploring and am not ready to hang my hat on one belief sytem as of yet, but Im pretty positive at this point that the bible and jesus God isn't going to be it. Im not willing to devote my life towards a belief that doesn't make sense to me. And so my goal is to strive searching for beliefs and ideas that do.
As sad as it is that this happens, you know as well as I do that many people latch onto Christianity without exploring the alternatives, and then have the audacity to condemn those who believe differently than they do when they lack education of other beliefs. Thats what I mean by not thinking. When you pick one belief without really putting much effort into exploring others, you have pretty much hung up your critical thinking cap and accepted what you have been offered as truth and just went with it. That to me is not a deep thinker. Like I said, that may not be you, and if its not you I do apologize for insinuating that you are not a thinker.