Howdsy Torog!

Nice reply.. here's what I think, though I understand if you ignore me in regards to this subject because, well, i'm not American, but hey, I can try!

Quote Originally Posted by Torog
Well..it looks like ya did yer homework on this,and you make a mighty convincin argument,that appears to pull the rug out from under my argument,that the phrase" under God",is an affirmation of the historical perspective of America. But because this country was and is,more than just the sum of the founding fathers and our presidents,my argument and position,still stands.
First of all i'm going to agree with you. Your country is more than the sum of just your founding fathers and presidents. You country is one of the most diverse countries in the world. You have people of every ethnicity living inside your borders, helping to make your country what it is today. To invite such diversity in culture is to invite diversity of religion. I don't think i'm wrong in saying that almost every religion and belief system has an ambassador in America. In a country that teaches patriotism, and tries to instill a belief that every citizen is united under the flag, why then would youwant to alienate a large number of your citizens by claiming it is one nation under God with a capital G?

Quote Originally Posted by Torog
I believe that this is also a part of a bigger effort,to deny religious liberty to the religious,to prevent the exercise of religion,which also interferes with freedom of speech,ie,the aetheists can go around denying God all they want-but the religious aren't allowed to affirm God,in the public square.
Not so. In fact it is quite the opposite. When every person is given the freedom of speech and expression, than it should be an equal field. One religion should not be given voice over others. If every religion has the right to expression in a country, then one signle religion should not be given precident over others. If you are going to say One Nation Under God, then you should say One Nation Under All Gods.

Quote Originally Posted by Torog
Christians are still the majority in this country and this country is traditionally Christian,that the majority must be made to bow and scrape,and be silenced, before a fraction of the populace,is wrong.
It is also wrong that the minority be made to bow and scrape and be silence before the majority. Isn't this one of the shining examples of why Democracy is so great? That everybody has an equal voice.

Quote Originally Posted by Torog
Aetheists seek to deny not only God,but their own spirituality,therefore,one could argue,that aetheists are only 'moral',because of laws that bind them and hold them accountable if they commit any crimes. If one believes that we are no higher than animals and that we don't have a soul,there's no reason to be 'moral',the Golden Rule,implies karmic action,which is spiritual in nature,a true aetheist would reject such an association with the karmic..because it is counter to their belief's.
Again i'll have to disagree. You say that atheists deny God, well this may be so but not in the way you imply it. If somebody was to abstain from eating beef because they didn't like it you could say that this person is denying beef, but in actual fact this person would just be choosing against it. Religion and the idea of God does not suit everybody, no matter how much you want it to be so.

Many atheists are extremely spiritual. (Spirituality and religion are not one and the same. In fact, I would say that modern religion has lost most of it's spirituality and has become bogged down in beaurocracy). Take Buddhists for example; they are extremely spiritual people, but do not believe in any God, as such.

The existence of God does not define our morals, neither does religion. To be atheist is not to be led astray. It is simply a lifestyle choice, an assessment of the situation and a drawn conclusion. You'll find that most people these days have some sense of right and wrong, although the finer points are sometimes harder to agree on. You must admit that everybody has a different set or morals, even within one religious organisation. You yourself are a Christian who happens to smoke Cannabis and believes that morally you are doing nothing wrong. One of your Christian counterparts, however, may look down upon the act of smoking and consider it a sin. Your individual morals would be clashing, but both believe that you are right. This shows that everybody can make their own morals, and no matter what religion you belong to (or even if you don't), most of the time everybody drawns the same conclusions in respect to what is morally right or wrong, though of course not everybody agrees on everything. To say that one person's set of morals is wrong and yours is right isd extremely ignorant and narrow-minded. I disagree with certain things but can understand and accept when other people do ot share my belief.

Man, i've typed too much already today! Sorry for the rambling. lol

Peace.
GHoSToKeR Reviewed by GHoSToKeR on . Judge: School Pledge Is Unconstitutional Judge: School Pledge Is Unconstitutional September 15, 2005 4:08 AM EDT SAN FRANCISCO - An atheist seeking to strike the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools has won a major battle in his quest to force the U.S. Supreme Court to take up the issue again. U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton sided with atheist Michael Newdow in ruling Wednesday that the pledge's reference to God violates the rights of children in three school districts to be "free from a Rating: 5