Troops in Iraq

[GHoSToKeR]

Excellent post, BrownFloyd! And welcome to the boards!

....the un-provoked attack on the Twin Towers....

Well, there you have it Torog... If you think it was unprovoked then I doubt you'll ever see it any other way, but think about this analargy for a second...


We're in a playground at a Primary School (Elementary School). There's a boy standing alone in the corner of the playground. In the opposite corner there are a large group of boys, obviously the 'popular' kids. One of them spots the lone child at the other side of the playground, and, because he looks different, acts different, sounds different, talks different, then the popular guy automatically dislikes him. As the week progresses this guy starts to bully the other kid incessantly. He tells him what to do, where to go, how to act, and never fears that this little kid might one day retalliate.

The bullying continues without coming to a head, but one day another child sees what is happening and doesn't like it. The next time the big, popular guy goes to strike out against his victim, the other child comes along and attacks him first. He punches and kicks him as hard as he can, though he's alot smaller and weaker than his opponent, but he does his best to inflict as much damage as he can in the only way he can. Then he runs off, and the tough guy is left cut and bruised and shocked.

Obviously he tells his friends what happened, but of course in his opinion this was an unprovoked attack. As far as he's concerned, some random kid just attacked him for absolutely no reason. Of course he'll never bother to link his attackers behaviour with his own behaviour towards his victim.

I could go on but I think you get my point. Does this scenario sound familiar?

Sound familiar?

[beachguy in thongs]

Holy shit, a tough question. We don't even let other countries help us during something like Hurricane Katrina and now we have all those people in Iraq. It's gotta be one or the other.

[Torog]

Excellent post, BrownFloyd! And welcome to the boards!



Well, there you have it Torog... If you think it was unprovoked then I doubt you'll ever see it any other way, but think about this analargy for a second...


We're in a playground at a Primary School (Elementary School). There's a boy standing alone in the corner of the playground. In the opposite corner there are a large group of boys, obviously the 'popular' kids. One of them spots the lone child at the other side of the playground, and, because he looks different, acts different, sounds different, talks different, then the popular guy automatically dislikes him. As the week progresses this guy starts to bully the other kid incessantly. He tells him what to do, where to go, how to act, and never fears that this little kid might one day retalliate.

The bullying continues without coming to a head, but one day another child sees what is happening and doesn't like it. The next time the big, popular guy goes to strike out against his victim, the other child comes along and attacks him first. He punches and kicks him as hard as he can, though he's alot smaller and weaker than his opponent, but he does his best to inflict as much damage as he can in the only way he can. Then he runs off, and the tough guy is left cut and bruised and shocked.

Obviously he tells his friends what happened, but of course in his opinion this was an unprovoked attack. As far as he's concerned, some random kid just attacked him for absolutely no reason. Of course he'll never bother to link his attackers behaviour with his own behaviour towards his victim.

I could go on but I think you get my point. Does this scenario sound familiar?

Sound familiar?

Howdy GhostToker,

Yup..I see where yer coming from..however,in the case of 9/11/01,it was the 'bullies' striking out at innocent people..the terrorists,are the bullies who want total control..they accuse the US of being bullies..because we're keeping them from forming the brutal,oppressive goverment that they desire..the terrorists didn't attack America,because they wanted to give their people freedom..they did so to git America out of their faces..and put in place,a brutal,islamofascist goverment.

Let me say this again--the terrorists seek to take away freedom..not to give freedom..they ain't fighting the US for a noble cause..they are fighting for control.

When I was in Saudi,a feller that had been there in country,for over 25 years,said that the arabs were resentful of America coming into their countries and building infrastructure and raising them up from their tribal,nomadic roots..so that they could be a part of civilization and extract their oil and sell it to the world. The Saudi's became embarrassed,that a bunch of infidels did for their country,what they should have done..and they hate us for it,he said that is just one major reason why we would be treated like crap,while in country..one of the other reasons,of course,was that we were all infidels in their eyes.

I see America,as a liberator..not a bully..the kid that attacked the bully in your story,was a liberator..not a bully. In fact..I was once the 'liberator'..when I was a kid,I attacked the bully..and became life-long friends with the kid that was being bullied. America,is taking out the bullies..and giving control over to the ones that have been bullied all of their lives..that is noble..killing over 3 thousand folks..is not noble. Because of America,over 50 million folks have been freed from the brutal bullies that have controled them all of their lives..because of America,women can now vote,participate in politics and go to school..that ain't being a bully--except to those who wish to retain brutal control.

Have a good one ....

[GHoSToKeR]

Torog, hey mate!

I wasn't saying that America is the bully, the liberator, or the victim. I'm simply highlighting the fact that, although you may think 9/11 was unprovoked alot of people (the sick fucks who believe it was a good thing, pardon my French) believe there was a a legitimate reason for 9/11 and that it was justified. It's true that America does get involved in other nation's business, and alot of the time are either uninvited or unwanted. I'm not justifying 9/11 or any other attacks on Americans or Brits, I just think we should expect retalliation from these people if we are attacking them (not just militarily, but atacking their cultures too).

I don't necessarily support Democracy. Like i've stated before there are alot of governmental systems which would work perfectly if it wasn't for the weakness and greed of humans. Any system of control we employ becomes corrupted and exploited, and begins to adopt other elements of other systems.... So no, I don't personally support democracy, only freedom. And if democracy is the only way toward freedom then so be it.

[Torog]

Torog, hey mate!

I wasn't saying that America is the bully, the liberator, or the victim. I'm simply highlighting the fact that, although you may think 9/11 was unprovoked alot of people (the sick f*cks who believe it was a good thing, pardon my French) believe there was a a legitimate reason for 9/11 and that it was justified. It's true that America does get involved in other nation's business, and alot of the time are either uninvited or unwanted. I'm not justifying 9/11 or any other attacks on Americans or Brits, I just think we should expect retalliation from these people if we are attacking them (not just militarily, but atacking their cultures too).

I don't necessarily support Democracy. Like i've stated before there are alot of governmental systems which would work perfectly if it wasn't for the weakness and greed of humans. Any system of control we employ becomes corrupted and exploited, and begins to adopt other elements of other systems.... So no, I don't personally support democracy, only freedom. And if democracy is the only way toward freedom then so be it.

Howdy GhostToker,

The 'cultures' that you speak of,advocate brutal,murderous control,individual rights are banned,as well as the rights of women. Such cultures,should not be tolerated anymore.

All you've ever known,in your short life,is socialism..so it doesn't suprise me much,when you say that you don't support democracy per se,try living in a country like Saudi,and you'll realize that I'm right about democracy and freedom. If you are a man who believes that he has the right to beat and rape his wife,or kill her for looking at another man..then arab culture,of the muslim kind..is for you. Do you also believe that honor killings and cliterectomies are part of a 'good' culture ? How about slavery and forced conversion to Islam..is that a desirable or justifiable part of any culture ? Why should the Free World,tolerate that type of culture..anymore ?

Have a good one ...

[GHoSToKeR]

Howdy GhostToker,

The 'cultures' that you speak of,advocate brutal,murderous control,individual rights are banned,as well as the rights of women. Such cultures,should not be tolerated anymore.

All you've ever known,in your short life,is socialism..so it doesn't suprise me much,when you say that you don't support democracy per se,try living in a country like Saudi,and you'll realize that I'm right about democracy and freedom. If you are a man who believes that he has the right to beat and rape his wife,or kill her for looking at another man..then arab culture,of the muslim kind..is for you. Do you also believe that honor killings and cliterectomies are part of a 'good' culture ? How about slavery and forced conversion to Islam..is that a desirable or justifiable part of any culture ? Why should the Free World,tolerate that type of culture..anymore ?

Have a good one ...

Yo,

Nope, I don't agree with any of those things. You should know I don't. However, I don't agree with alot of things that regularly happen in a democracy either... things like state sanctioned executions, the dependancy on bureaucracy, governments interfering in the personal lives of it's citizens (War on Drugs, etc)... I was just saying that nothing is perfect, not even democracy.

You should know by now that I want freedom for everybody just as much as the next guy... and like I said before, if that means supporting democracy then i'll do so. But I don't and never will believe democracy to be the Holy Grail of politics.

Peace and Poltergeists!

-GHoST-

[greenguy]

How is a war on terror even possible? It's like declaring a war on sadness or a war on anger. You can't just wipe out an emotion!

Exactly .....................this is just a farce. This is a war so G.W.B can have one under his belt.

[Zero Revolt]

Why don't I just get to the bottom line. Fuck the Iraqis. We have enough problems of our own such as hurricanes and other bad shit. But we live in america where hurricane katrina victims don't get help from their own goverment until five fucking days later but OMFG we can have food and medical supplies delivered to tsunami victims the same day it happened. Face it the whole country has gone to shit and were all gonna have to take a big bite out of it. Back on the iraqis. Do you really think that they ever had "Weapons of Mass Destruction or the means to deliver those weapons to a U.S. Target??? What are they gonna do just send some fucking towelhead out into the middle of the desert and launch a nuclear warhead off a camels back??? Bring our troops home!!! Our own people need them. What is it with america? They always put us american people last.

[BrownFloyd]

Yup..I see where yer coming from..however,in the case of 9/11/01,it was the 'bullies' striking out at innocent people..the terrorists,are the bullies who want total control..they accuse the US of being bullies..because we're keeping them from forming the brutal,oppressive goverment that they desire.

The sad part in all of this, as you mentionned is the death of innocent civillians.

If you look at the facts.

- There were no Iraqis involved in 9/11
- There were no WMD in Iraq
- The USA put the Iraqi people and the country in a situation of cahos, and the life of the average Iraqi is now worst than it was before the invasion.

Now let's stop thinking about the Iraqis, and look at the Americans.
This unjustified war has directly caused more hate torwards the USA, and has directly cause many more recruits for the terrorist leaders. So tell me how does this benefit the average American ? This war has caused the death of many american soldiers. How does this benefit the average American ? This war has put the country into a big amount of debt. How does this benefit the average American ?

The answers to all of those question is that none of those facts benefit the average american. So once again, I ask this question. Who benefits from this war ?

The answers I come up with is
1- The Bush Administration
2- Israel
3- The terrorist leaders (able to do more recruiting)

[Zero Revolt]

Wanna see what our american soldiers are facing over in Iraq? Well look no further.
http://www.thenausea.com/updates.html

Watch those and tell me how you feel.