Torog

[Torog]

You wanted my comments? Well guess what... You're absolutely right! About the getting stoned part, at least.... The difference, I simply refuse to place my spirit, life-force, or whatever you wanna call it in a Christian framework, because I simply don't believe in it. To me, putting your faith in an omnipotent being, caring more for the after-life than for life, are all mis-guided, and cannabis has only pushed me harder in that direction. Christianity is, simply put, to deny the potential of mankind to be God themselves. We live in our world now and today, so let's make it a better place now. The after-life is completely irrelevant for obvious reasons. Why make sacrifices today to ensure that you will be ok aftr you die? It really doesn't make sense to me. Do you really need a religion to tell you that killing someone is bad? that lying is bad? that disrespecting your parents is bad? No you don't because we already know that.

What you call God, I call consciousness. When you die, you wanna make things right with God, I wanna make things right with my conscience.

Howdy FLESH,

Well I'm glad that ya agree with the gittin stoned part..lol..I figured that you would..but sometimes I wonder..when folks who toke,turn around and say that they don't believe in God or the spirit world or their own souls..I just don't understand how someone can be so shallow as to not feel the expansion of conscicousness that occurs when they toke.

Now don't git me wrong..I ain't saying we should neglect the here and now or our physical lives,on the contrary,our physical lives in the here and now,are very vital. I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

In regards to the question of morality..I would ask you--which came first ? Judeo-Christian values,from which many of our laws originate..or the amoral relativism of the Left ?

If a child is raised without any moral guidance or with amoral relativism,there would be nothing to prevent them from lying,cheating,stealing or murder..because they would see doing such,as tools to git what they want for themselves..and to heck with everyone else. The Left,would have us believe,that there is no higher goal,than satisfying one's every desire and want..there's no compelling reason to be of good character,because such,defeats the hedonistic goals of liberalism..virtues such as honesty,honor and selflessness,have no place in a liberal world..where if it feels good..do it.

Have a good one ....

[slipknotpsycho]

I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

i respect that's your beliefs, but it never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make for their god, ok here's one i'd like to see someone make an excuse for, why.... just simply why would some high deity that obviously expresses human emotion (as told by your book) create all this, leave billions over the years to suffer and not do a damn thing to intervene? what could your god hope to gain from watching alooooooooooooooooooooooot of lesser creatures roam the 'earth he made' and 'learn spirtiual lessons' he's all knowing all wise (according to yal) and he can do anything he absolutely feels like. so why, even if you ever did prove your god is real, i'd still never worship him. know why? cuz it just seems like he enjoys playing 'doll house' just a little bit too much. according to yal he gives to US, so i'll ask again, what could he hope to gain from this all? he can't gain wisdom he has it, can't gain wealth he doesn't need it, can't gain companionism becasue no one's ever seen or talked to him. so about the only thing possible left for him to gain from it all (given the circumstances) is entertainment.... and if your god is entertained by death, famine, plague, heartache, pain, struggle, heinous crimes, and suffering, well then he's not so mighty in my mind and i want nothing to do with him.

[GHoSToKeR]

Isnâ??t there some way you can just be respectful of other peopleâ??s differences?
Everyone doesnâ??t have to believe the same thing,
God / Jehovah / Gaeya / Buddha / the great nothingâ?¦whatever.
Tolerance, respect and love are what itâ??s all about
â?? regardless of personal beliefs.
For a bunch of stoners you lot donâ??t half get your knickers in a knot.
Maybe you need to change your smoke����

Edit; stop insulting people - you're startin to piss me off

Nice post, Lulu. I've only read this far, but all I see is people slagging eachother off. Warlok, so what if you don't believe in God? Why do you have to be insulting and offensive about it? You're not getting your point across very well, you're just looking foolish and, well, ignorant.

I don't believe in God either, but I still get on with Torog really well (at least I think... Torog? lol) because I respect his opinions and I try not to be insulting.. sometimes I fail but at least I try. Why can't you?

[GHoSToKeR]

ermitonto, surely a a deity such as the Christian God, being omnipotent, would be able to feel those emotions if he wanted to? Surely it would be a matter of willing himself to feel them?

Torog, of course there have been times when smoking has been a spiritual experience. But spirituality comes in all forms, all shapes and sizes. You and I may have experienced the same feeling while being baked, but you interpreted it as a connection with your God, where as I interpret it as an expanding of my conscious mind. A freeing of the constraints of my consciousness which lets me percieve the world around me in a completely different way. Experiencing this doesn't make me believe in God, but it does make me believe in the importance of the world around me, because when i'm high I can truely take in it's beauty.

[slipknotpsycho]

i try to keep it calm (even tho me and torog have seemed to have arguments about god multiple tiems before) what i've seen with my eyes, in this life.... just makes me so damned angry and doesn't make sense to me, we're all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs and should i ever insult anyone (atleast when pertaining to religion) it is not intended. i guess you could say i like to debate (i call it arguing but other grown people call it debating) alot of times i get caught up in where i'm going and end up trailing off subject and making ridiculously long posts... but i can't help it, i just get so worked up over it.

[GHoSToKeR]

Hey I do the same, man. lol It's just people like Warlok really piss me off. I don't give a shit if you're Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever.. you shouldn't talk about other people's beliefs like that.

[F L E S H]

Yes, I do realize that the Gospels were probably based on exaggerated oral history, so we can't really attribute anything said in the Bible directly to Jesus, but when Christians want me to trust in Jesus they want me to base that trust on the material contained in the Bible (since we have virtually no other sources for information about him). Since Biblejesus predicts the Second Coming within the lifetimes of the people alive at the time, I can't trust Biblejesus, and since I have no way of knowing what Realjesus actually said (assuming he existed), I can't trust Realjesus either.

By the way, what was the evidence that Jesus didn't really preach such a quick return? It seems to me like it would be downright impossible to prove what somebody said or didn't say 2000 years ago whose life was never documented until decades after his death.

Let me just note, for the record, everything you write I agree with. I was just putting in my own 2 cents Of course there's no sure way of knowing what Jesus REALLY said, but some scholars I feel do come close in that they extrapolate from events in the Gospels and suppose what could really have happened. But then again, it's still just speculation, and reading these scholars' thoughts (most of which are Christians themselves, even priests!) makes me even more firm in my belief that there is no god, ironically.

[F L E S H]

Howdy FLESH,

Well I'm glad that ya agree with the gittin stoned part..lol..I figured that you would..but sometimes I wonder..when folks who toke,turn around and say that they don't believe in God or the spirit world or their own souls..I just don't understand how someone can be so shallow as to not feel the expansion of conscicousness that occurs when they toke.

Now don't git me wrong..I ain't saying we should neglect the here and now or our physical lives,on the contrary,our physical lives in the here and now,are very vital. I believe that we are on the physical plane,to learn spiritual lessons from Life's ups and downs..which is why God does not interfere much with what goes on here,if He did,then we wouldn't learn how to make the world a better place for everyone.

In regards to the question of morality..I would ask you--which came first ? Judeo-Christian values,from which many of our laws originate..or the amoral relativism of the Left ?

If a child is raised without any moral guidance or with amoral relativism,there would be nothing to prevent them from lying,cheating,stealing or murder..because they would see doing such,as tools to git what they want for themselves..and to heck with everyone else. The Left,would have us believe,that there is no higher goal,than satisfying one's every desire and want..there's no compelling reason to be of good character,because such,defeats the hedonistic goals of liberalism..virtues such as honesty,honor and selflessness,have no place in a liberal world..where if it feels good..do it.

Have a good one ....

This has absolutely nothing to do with amoral relativism of the Left... Why does it always come back to that with you? Jesus did not invent morality. Morality was not born 2,000 years ago in Bethlehem. My point is that morality does not come from the Bible, but it is deeply ingrained within every human being. We all instinctively know what is right or wrong, regardless of what religion we follow. We then choose later on in life whether we will give in to our conscience or ignore it completely.

By your logic, anyone who is not Judeo-Christian is amoral. Unfortunately, I think that's what happens when you haven't been in contact with many people from different cultures (and don't mention the oil-drilling in Saudi Arabia, I already know about that ) In Montreal, there are people literally from all over the world. My girlfriend is Chinese, and her family follows Buddhist traditions. But you would be surprised at how much we have in common in terms of values and morals, me the confirmed Italian atheist and her the non-religious Chinese Buddhist. And it's not ike that only with her.

Deep down, every human being's sense of morality is the same, each one just chooses to listen to it or ignore it. That's what I believe at least, and that's one of the reasons Christianity is not important in my life, because ultimately it's just telling me what I already know (in terms of morality of course).

[mellow mood]

yea quebec rocks

texas, and sorry if i may not be correct, seems to be a pretty closed minded, and should i add a lot racist area. only white "rednecks". and this is not directed to you torog.

i respect your beleifs and everyone's beleifs here. but i think, sorry i didnt read the whole thread, that if u think someone is "amoral" or whatever coz he doesnt beleive in any god or who knows any spiritual thing, u are the one that is amoral.

i cant say im right more than u can say you are. we are all right from our own point of view from our own world. i doesnt particularly beleive in a god, but i do beleive that our world is way more than what we, simple humans, can see.

peace

[slipknotpsycho]

actually you got it backwards, caucasians are becoming the minority here.... and all these mexicans around me (no offense to anyone of hispanic background, i'm not racists believe me) always see a single white person and start talking shit, usually starting off by saying "punk ass white boy" it is closed minded pretty much tho, bush is a prime example of the type that come from here. oh and there's not really as many rednecks as people believe anymore.... matter of fact, i can't remember the last time i've seen a real redneck around here.