Political Hypocrisy

[amsterdam]

because saddam hussein funded palestinian suicide bombers and their families,he also gave refuge to zarqawi after he was shot on the battlefield in afghanistan and let him set up a camp north of Baghdad a year before we went in(and in the week before we went in while the french were selling saddam anti tank missles).we also arrested the mastermind of the achilles lauro ship hijacking in downtown baghdad.

afghanistan was not a dictatorship,it was a terrorist state.

the United States and China are alot closer than the only report negative news and violence news media will lead the public to believe.

[ermitonto]

because saddam hussein funded palestinian suicide bombers and their families,he also gave refuge to zarqawi after he was shot on the battlefield in afghanistan and let him set up a camp north of Baghdad a year before we went in(and in the week before we went in while the french were selling saddam anti tank missles).we also arrested the mastermind of the achilles lauro ship hijacking in downtown baghdad.

Yeah, governments kill innocent people, and do horrendous things. All of them. Especially dictatorial governments like Iraq, or the many dictatorial allies of US economics.

afghanistan was not a dictatorship,it was a terrorist state.

So that makes the US-backed dictatorships in Haiti and Saudi Arabia okay? I don't follow.

the United States and China are alot closer than the only report negative news and violence news media will lead the public to believe.

So what if the United States and China are close? The Chinese government is a menace to democracy and needs to be defeated for the sake of human rights, democracy and socialism. Nothing can change that.

[dboy]

Amsterdam: Just because the terrorists you mentioned were captured in Iraq does not necessarily mean they were "state-sponsored". We very likely have a few terrorists running around the US right now. It doesn't mean we support it. It would be difficult for me to believe that Saddam had better border controls than the US. Saddam was running a secular regime, not a theocracy. So its very doubtful he agreed with much of anything that al Queda had to say.

China: I don't think the verdict is in on China yet. China is changing very quickly. I think it would be better not to think of them as an enemy to be destroyed, so much as a large competitor for resources. China may surprise us will their willingness to compete in the marketplace rather than on a battlefield.

I'm just not a big fan of invading people and kicking their ass, even if we can. We don't have a very good track record in the nation-building game. And I don't think our freedom has to come at the expense of everyone else's.

dboy

[ermitonto]

China is certainly not an enemy to be destroyed. The Chinese government is, just like the American government, the Norwegian government, the Iranian government, the Australian government, etc. These institutions can only be destroyed by the working class of the world. The elite will never bring freedom for us, and foreign invasion will never bring freedom for anybody. It will just replace one capitalist bureaucracy with another.

[weirdo79]

Afghanistan was a theocracy, ruled by a council called the Taliban.....There is no such thing as a terrorist state, Terrorism is a military tactic.....You didnt see americans saying "hey look theres germany the "blitzkrieg state" or hear people nowadays saying "hey look theres america the "air strike state"......sheesh be logical.

[papaw]

I think this is a great point dboy and I completely agree. Iraq has completely been destabilized now and we are much worse off for that. The only thing I was asserting is that so many people are so quick to pick one side or the other without using any real thought. And as I stated, I think they are hypocrites. I won't agree that force is never justified though. The world is a harsh place and I believe that anyone who thinks otherwise is a bit naive, no they are extremely naive. If history has taught us anything it is that rape, murder, theft, etc. are just human nature. These are things that are in us. You too brother. Therefore, forgive me if I don't agree with you that sometimes killing isn't justified. Yes, we are the best at it, and I am not saying that is something to be proud of. But don't talk like the United States is the only group of people who aren't a part of some bullshit idea of peace and brotherhood. All I was pointing out was the hypocritical nature of a lot of people who oppose the war, only because it was enacted by a conservative president. There are plenty of reasons to be against our force in Iraq, I just don't want everyone to jump on either side of the bandwagon because they either listen to Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken. And, dropping a bomb can be a humanitarian solution. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. That is a harsh reality in this world, and you won't find many more bleeding heart dirty hippies than this boy here. But, I'm not blind either. Don't even try to tell me that some wars and killing aren't justified. I'm not saying Iraq is, but I believe you've made some pretty broad generalizations here. Sometimes you have to take the lesser of two evils or you're just not acting intelligently. But, I certainly respect your point, and agree with most of it, and it was a well thought out and worded response. Thanks for the debate and I look forward to your response.

Papaw. The way I see it, the problem with this war is that we are there on false pretext. The stated reasons for being there, the weapons, the dictator, the chemical attacks (on his own people!) are all pretext. The actual reason we are there is because the US is attempting to fashion a world government. George Bush is only a figurehead here. Yes, I hate him and wish him ill, but the real enemies are in the background; the multinationals, the moneymen, and certain right-wing think-tanks. "Humanitarian reasons" are what's known as "spin". It's all bullshite. Iraq is NOW a haven for terrorism and is on the brink of a civil war. We have created the mind of a terrorist in every grief-stricken boy who's parents and families have been terrorized, maimed, and killed in this war. We have created 1000's of bin Laden's. How is that a humanitarian solution? How is dropping bombs EVER a humanitarian solution? We are there for ONE reason: To assert our global domination. That is all. Nothing else. The LAST thing the US cares about is people, foreign or domestic. That is why, in my opinion, if you are an American soldier, you are a terrorist. Look at the actions of your government. Look at what is left of the other countries we have "liberated". Look at Granada, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Nicaragua, and now Iraq. Hussein is !NOTHING! in comparison to what our curent and past presidents have done, both Democrat and Republican. Hussein was a tin-pot half-assed sadist with a really bad taste for fashion and interior design. The US government has turned sadism into an art form. We have learned how to kill with precision. We have learned how to control journalists in such a way that they can be on the ground, in the battle, and still not report the war with anything close to accuracy. We are so proud of ourselves and our art of war. We are mystified by new phrases such as "Shock and Awe" and "Command and Control" and "Daisy-Cutter Bombs". The US is in the midst of an orgasm of violence and we are loving every minute of it. We have created our own Roman Colliseum, where gladiators engage in blood sport for our entertainment, which we can tune into anytime on CNN or FoxNews. But this is just my opinion...

dboy