Question for Zandor...Clone Root Trouble

[Texastweeked]

I have several threads on this site, all of which have been graciously answered by someone or another...Super Site !!! Anyway, I am trying to get my bubbler working properly before the first grow in the flower chamber finishes up (about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks) I used soil to grow first round to check cabinet temps, air flow etc. All is great, now my clones in the bubbler are having a hard time.
* (2) 37w Comp Flouro's
* 7 gallon bubbler tub
* dual outlet air pump
* (2) 10" air stones
* temps upper 70's to low 80's
* Clones from thriving Bonsai Mum
* Schultz Orchid Grow at 1/2 strength (1/4 tsp per gallon)
(19-31-17)
* Rooting Gel to start

Initially put clones in foam rubber plugs (2), placed Nutes and Root hormone into 40ml cups and set clone bases in liquid. They rooted in 7-8 days with nice bright pretty roots (approx 1/8" long), moved them to bubbler lid and the leaves began the yellowing crap (previous thread), and thought I had it licked, boy was I wrong, now the whole cutting is turning yellow and the roots have stopped at about 1/4" and are turning a tan to brown color...read one of your FAQ threads and the roots looked white like these did at first, any suggestions?? I am switching to Super Thrive for the Bubbler tonight, do you think that will help?
Will post picks of roots if needed

Thanks

Texastweeked Reviewed by Texastweeked on 08-08-2005. Question for Zandor...Clone Root Trouble I have several threads on this site, all of which have been graciously answered by someone or another...Super Site !!! Anyway, I am trying to get my bubbler working properly before the first grow in the flower chamber finishes up (about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks) I used soil to grow first round to check cabinet temps, air flow etc. All is great, now my clones in the bubbler are having a hard time. * (2) 37w Comp Flouro's * 7 gallon bubbler tub * dual outlet air pump * (2) 10" air stones * temps Rating: 5

[Zandor]

Well for most people I tell them to just use Ph adjusted RO water and the rooting gel or powder.

My self I use a very week and I mean very week nutrient mix like
2.5ml of Micro, Grow, Bloom and a 2ml superthrive and 2ml B-1 it works for me just fine but I watch everything like a hawk anyway. I don't use a bubbler system my self they are just not consistent enough for me.

For bubbler type system they do need more water and the water line should be closer to the cuttings then a real Aeroponics system does. Iâ??m not sure if it was yours I saw but someone use what looked like foam rubber as plugs it was yellow foam like out of a mattress or something like that. Those would not work because they would take in water hold it in and soak the rooting clone stems and rot them before they get a chance to make it.

Another thing you need some Anti-Wilt spray of some type to keep the leaf and stem from drying out waiting for the roots to form.

Can you post a picture of your cloner system for me or give me a link where you have some pictures?

If you need plugs email me zandor at pot.com

[Texastweeked]

Thanks for your prompt reply, had become accustomed to getting quick responses from "NOTANOVICE" and all of a sudden he dropped off. Yes, you are correct, that the plugs mentioned are foam rubber, as that is what the initial research pointed to as a cheap alternative and the author of that particular piece recommended it. I have tried to find other data pertaining to this set up.....there is just too many differences of opinion to make an educated decision (being a newbie that is). I have quite a few threads on the site, tried posting in several different after recieving no response on a few. Anyway, The nutes being used seems to be working great with "Soil", and am in the process of hunting down "SuperThrive" locally. I think I am only a week or so away from being forced to harvest the two in flower now, so need to get something ready to go back in, do you suggest going to soil again just to keep the flow while working on this issue ?? or can you offer alternative(s) of hydro to get the faster and better grow for the space?
A Link to the member list follows to view all threads started by me.

Thanks Again for Your Time and Patience.

Link to ALL Threads.
http://boards.cannabis.com/member.php?u=22332

Link to Grow Box Pics & Setup
http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=25445

[Zandor]

for one You don't have the right nutrients for a resin producing plant.
Hydroponic nutrients are fine in dirt I use them my self. My preference is GH 3 part so I can mix the ratio I need. It's not that expensive and found in most grow shops on line and around the net.

Second like I said the plugs are one of your big problems. If you should try dirt again...that's better then not having anything to grow. Yes dirt is slower but it still grows.

My online hydro shop is not up yet but if you need plugs I sell them 20 for 9.00 on eBay. There are none on right now only a few 36 count Aeroponics cloners but let me know and I can send you some plugs. The ones I use fit a 1-1/4" hole and are only for cloning not growing out plants. Bubblers need to have the water about 1" below the cutting and you need to have so many bubbles you can't see the bottom of the tank.

[latewood]

zandor the rootmaster...TexasT...go to walmart and buy a garden kneepad, this material works great, more density than what you are using and get some miracle grow leaf shine to spray on your clones as an anti-wilt...I basically copied Zandor's method except I also had a bubbler...just make sure that you keep your stem's 1/2 -1"
above the bubbles...check this out... http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=25408 it is my clone/bubbler thread...if all else fails then contact Z for your supplies.
hope this helps. latewood

[Texastweeked]

Again, Thanks for the quick responses. After posting yesterday, I pulled the two (2) plugs out of the bubbler to inspect the roots and stems for rot, and noticed one of the clones (indica) had flowered at the first node...big pistils ! ????? Does this happen a lot?! Anyway, I will contact you later Zandor concerning the plugs, ordering on line has caused me concern over privacy issues, so I have tried to acquire all at local shops as much as possible. Of course this is causing problems in acquiring seeds of value & knowing that they are what they say they are...ya know?! I guess I will start 4-6 new clones today in soil, and just grow twice as many compared to the bubbler to get the anticipated end result. If you don't mind (either of you) my picking your brains a bit during this second attempt, then I may try to work on the bubbler while starting a second type of hydro system if you can suggest one that might work for my system. If you have visited the links I inserted which shows the cabinet in use....I am adding to the design this weekend. Going to add a drying and curing chamber to the cabinet. Will allow for lower temps, great airflow, descent humidity levels, no light, and most of all.....NO ODOR! One more quick question for ya'll, if clones planted today in soil, rooting hormone (powder) wrapped in gauze which has worked thus far, and assuming no topping, just let the clones grow single tip, how long before I put them into flower (12/12 HPS) to get the results that I got from the previous indica clone ??

Great job guys...ZANDOR & Latewood

[Zandor]

Aeroponics work better then bubblers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE%3AIT&rd=1

This is a good cloner at a good price for those who can't or don't want to make their own.

[latewood]

Again, Thanks for the quick responses. After posting yesterday, I pulled the two (2) plugs out of the bubbler to inspect the roots and stems for rot, and noticed one of the clones (indica) had flowered at the first node...big pistils ! ????? Does this happen a lot?! Anyway, I will contact you later Zandor concerning the plugs, ordering on line has caused me concern over privacy issues, so I have tried to acquire all at local shops as much as possible. Of course this is causing problems in acquiring seeds of value & knowing that they are what they say they are...ya know?! I guess I will start 4-6 new clones today in soil, and just grow twice as many compared to the bubbler to get the anticipated end result. If you don't mind (either of you) my picking your brains a bit during this second attempt, then I may try to work on the bubbler while starting a second type of hydro system if you can suggest one that might work for my system. If you have visited the links I inserted which shows the cabinet in use....I am adding to the design this weekend. Going to add a drying and curing chamber to the cabinet. Will allow for lower temps, great airflow, descent humidity levels, no light, and most of all.....NO ODOR! One more quick question for ya'll, if clones planted today in soil, rooting hormone (powder) wrapped in gauze which has worked thus far, and assuming no topping, just let the clones grow single tip, how long before I put them into flower (12/12 HPS) to get the results that I got from the previous indica clone ??

Great job guys...ZANDOR & Latewood

I never clone into soil so I can't help you there...aeroponics is the best...I just haven't built my sprinkler system yet, but I got all but 1-2 with my bubbler...so I go with what I know...
don't get overwhelmed...both units are real easy to make, if you can do simple handyman construction...just keep it simple...hope this helps.later

[Texastweeked]

Thanks Again Guys !!! Great help....I am going to try the bubbler system again, except lowering the water level this time as the initial reasearch used to build this system did not specify. Also I think I may have had the clones cut too short....do ya think?? This time I have cut them with a min. of 4 nodes above the cut, and will suspend just above the surface of the water. I am now using a liquid schultz plant food and superthrive, which have made the bonsai mums go stupid on me, two cutting per week just to fit in my cabinet. Do you think that will help the bubbler system?? Also building a drip system this weekend, unfortunately the cabinet was designed around SWC, will this work with drip?? Thanks again in advance for the help

[latewood]

I would watch cutting too much, but because your cabinet is too small presents you with the dilemma of having to trim to fit in your cab, and thus losing yield, or not cutting and not fitting...that's gotta suck, let us know what you do