Thoughts on China....HELP

[pisshead]

especially if it's the 'gang' your government funded and trained 'banger' and uses to protect their vital illegal drug running activities...don't pay your cut to the feds...watch out, you might get your car blown up.

imagine if "bin laden" or "al qaeda" was behind car bombings in the US by US funded and trained gangs so they could more easily control the heroin and coke that comes in.

but let's not talk about our terrorism.

[Psycho4Bud]

especially if it's the 'gang' your government funded and trained 'banger' and uses to protect their vital illegal drug running activities...don't pay your cut to the feds...watch out, you might get your car blown up.

imagine if "bin laden" or "al qaeda" was behind car bombings in the US by US funded and trained gangs so they could more easily control the heroin and coke that comes in.

but let's not talk about our terrorism.

O.k. after all, the thread is named "thoughts on china" so I'll agree, lets not talk about the U.S.

[Fengzi]

If ya got a 4x4 you play with it...unless your a yuppie!
They had a military mind of more men was better. Guess what? It don't work today and they realize it. THAT's why their changing stratagies, not just to have it around. Get real!

I'm not sure where you live but I can't tell you how many times I see some Silicon Valley housewife driving around in a sparkling shiny Hummer or BMW X5. Yep, they're driven by yuppies and like the U.S's nukes, they aint never gonna be used for what they were designed for. Or are they

You're right about China changing strategies because they realized what they had wouldn't work. Still doesn't change my point though. They want to be a big superpower and a modern military goes along with that.

Another history major! O.K., the Taiwan people want to become one with mother China, it's the U.S. blocking it!

Huh? What did my point have to do with history. And when did I say the Taiwanese wnated to go back to mother China? All I said was that we in the U.S. are more concerned with the Taiwan issue than the Taiwanese.

Maybe they're the minority? NO, that could never be!

Maybe so, but how many Taiwanese and mainland Chinese do you speak with on a daily basis? How many times have you been to either country? I'm basing my opinion on what I have heard from actual people in the actual countries, not what the U.S media wants me to beleive.

Damn right they know it! Go into google search under china border disbutes, find out how well your precious China gets along with its neighbors. The only ones they sign any type of agreements with are the ones that could cook their asses with a nuke. FACT!

You mean India, Vietnam, Russia, Tibet? I know my Chinese history, I don't need Google. But isn't this a good case of the pot calling the kettle black? The only difference is that China doesn't have the ability to go as far as we do for it's disputes.

I don't consider us perfect and I surely don't see them as such. They have different cultures and beliefs and I don't think that I, or we, should shove our ways down anyones throat. But I'll be damned if we should let some punk bitch country like Afghanistan do to us what was done!

For the record I don't have any problem with our going into Afghanistan. It was the appropriate response to 9/11. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was against it. Iraq's another story but its off topic. Anyhow, my point wasn't neccessarily to bash our foriegn policy as much as it was to point out that in the eyes of another country, who doesn't always see eye to eye with us, the U.S is fully capable and willing to enforce its own agenda, whether right or wrong, militarily.

What does it mean to be top dog? Everyone with an agenda wants to knock ya off the top. Football superbowl, baseball.... you name the sport and the goal is to knock out last years champs and not just beat but humiliate!

Me get serious? This isn't sports and it isn't a game. You actually think China sees us as their Mt. Everest? Something to conquer simply because we're there? Come on Psycho, I've read your posts. I know you're more intelligent than that. They just want to be damned sure we don't see them as our Everest.

Don't think we should invest in the latest and greatest of technologies...get serious!

I have no problems with us haveing the latest and greatest. Makes me proud to be an American. But does that mean we want to take over the world? Well, maybe Georgie Porgie but not America as a whole. If we don't though, why does it mean they do when they want the latest and greatest?

Isn't America great!

Absofuckinlutely!! No arguments here.

[Psycho4Bud]

I'm not sure where you live but I can't tell you how many times I see some Silicon Valley housewife driving around in a sparkling shiny Hummer or BMW X5. Yep, they're driven by yuppies and like the U.S's nukes, they aint never gonna be used for what they were designed for. Or are they

I hope to hell their not! If we use ours that will be a retaliation of someone pressing their button...at least I hope!

You're right about China changing strategies because they realized what they had wouldn't work. Still doesn't change my point though. They want to be a big superpower and a modern military goes along with that.

That's a fact! Hell, they got us, N. Korea, Russia, India...alot of nuke powers out there besides us! China's doin' what they got to do! I'm not against the Chineese system of communism. If that's what their happy with, I'm happy for them. If it's working, why fix it?

Huh? What did my point have to do with history. And when did I say the Taiwanese wnated to go back to mother China? All I said was that we in the U.S. are more concerned with the Taiwan issue than the Taiwanese.

China, I believe, gave Taiwan until 2010. I'm sure their crapping their pants more than you or me.

Maybe so, but how many Taiwanese and mainland Chinese do you speak with on a daily basis? How many times have you been to either country? I'm basing my opinion on what I have heard from actual people in the actual countries, not what the U.S media wants me to beleive.

If the majority of Taiwan people want to join the republic, they have a voice and they should use it.

You mean India, Vietnam, Russia, Tibet? I know my Chinese history, I don't need Google. But isn't this a good case of the pot calling the kettle black? The only difference is that China doesn't have the ability to go as far as we do for it's disputes.

Why not?

For the record I don't have any problem with our going into Afghanistan. It was the appropriate response to 9/11. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was against it. Iraq's another story but its off topic. Anyhow, my point wasn't neccessarily to bash our foriegn policy as much as it was to point out that in the eyes of another country, who doesn't always see eye to eye with us, the U.S is fully capable and willing to enforce its own agenda, whether right or wrong, militarily.

I agree, the same way that I feel that the French are behind alot of the problems. But thats just my opinion. I am definately glad to see that we at least see eye to eye on Afghanistan though!!

Me get serious? This isn't sports and it isn't a game. You actually think China sees us as their Mt. Everest? Something to conquer simply because we're there? Come on Psycho, I've read your posts. I know you're more intelligent than that. They just want to be damned sure we don't see them as our Everest.

I don't really feel they want to conquer us but I also don't believe they want to be seen as number 2 or 3. I have no problem with equals. AS LONG as all these political pricks understand the meaning of mutual destruction!!!

I have no problems with us haveing the latest and greatest. Makes me proud to be an American. But does that mean we want to take over the world? Well, maybe Georgie Porgie but not America as a whole. If we don't though, why does it mean they do when they want the latest and greatest?

Depends who your talking about. If it's China, hell, they're just looking out for their best interests. Iran, with some mullah that thinks it would be cool to get nuked out in a response of a nuke and die for Allah. Thats alot different! These people take young idiots and make them believe that strapping a bomb on your ass and blowing up civilians is the way to go. Sure don't see Osama or Zarqawi doing that shit...hell, they keep running for the hills! Why not die for Allah Osama??? PUSSY!!!!


Absofuckinlutely!! No arguments here.

Back to sports! Remember when the Cowboys had their dynasty? Oh no, M. Irvin got a B.J., this linesman caught smokin pot, etc........ all out after number one! Same with us, we don't read on the dirty crap these other countries do because their not #1 on the hit chart..we are. Wherever we are, 9 chances out of 10 you'll see the Brits but who gets all the bad press? Look at the Middle East and Africa, it sure wasn't the U.S. setting up our empires in them countries. Great Britain, France, Spain all had their fun raping these countries of their riches.
Great Britain set up Israel, France supplied nuclear technology and we get the shit for being the dirty birds watching over her! Just gets old!!!

[Fengzi]

It's starting to sound like we really agree on the basics here if not the fine details. And, I think we definitely agree that when all is said and done the fundy Muslims are much more of an immediate threat than China. Pakistan is who worries me the most. I can't beleive I'm the only one who can see some parallels between them and Iran 20 years ago. How long before some charismatic, hard core, fundamentalist comes to power after convincing the rest of the population that the Musharraf is just too accomodating to the Western heathens. Then it won't be about dealing with a fundy country who might be developing nukes. It will about dealing with a fundy country that already has them.

[BlueCat]

Hi Fengzi, thanks for the response....I have been reading things all day.

I found several interesting articles. It would seem the US is lying about the arms in order to pressure other governments...

China solemnly demands the U.S. conforms to the trend, respect the facts, correct its mistakes, stop attacking China with no concrete reason, and halt its interference in China's internal affairs as well as the remarks and acts infringing Sino-US relations

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/feature.htm

By deliberately exaggerating the military imbalance across the Taiwan Straits, the Pentagon's report is designed to strengthen its case for Taiwan buying more advanced US weapons, said the commentary.
The Pentagon also wants, by selling the China threat theory, to pressure the European Union (EU) not to lift its arms embargo against China and to dissuade Israel from selling weapons to China, it added.

http://taiwansecurity.org/News/2005/XH-220705.htm

Defense budgets are a mirror to a country's strategic intentions and its potential to threaten others. It comes as no surprise therefore that the many China watchers in the West keep a close eye on any movement in the China's defense spending. Recent remarks made by senior U.S. and Japanese officials have accused China of upping its spending in this area to alarming proportions.

But as Mao Zedong once said, "Seek truth from facts." A recent internationally accredited report on military matters, including expenditures, flies in the face of accusations leveled against China and puts the country's military spending into perspective.

China's military expenses had been overstated by the Pentagon by 71 percent.



I am still researching the Tiawan issue before I will comment completely. If they don't want independence from China then why are they practicing for an attack?

Taiwan staged military exercises yesterday aimed at repelling a Chinese invasion, a week after the United States said China's military modernization drive had tilted the balance in Beijing's favor.

http://www.taiwansecurity.org/Reu/20...ers-280705.htm



I don't like the fact that a top Chinese General has flat out threatened us...


â??If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,â?� said General Zhu Chenghu.

"We Chinese will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds ... of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese," he added.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4...00e2511c8.html

I can see both Governments seem to be quilty here.....

[BlueCat]

"Billions of U.S. arms sales to Afghanistan in the 1980s ended up empowering Islamic fundamentalist fighters across the globe," notes report co-author William D. Hartung. "Our current policy of arming unstable regimes could have similarly disastrous consequences, with U.S.-supplied weapons falling into the hands of terrorists, insurgents, or hostile governments."

"Perhaps no single policy is more at odds with President Bushâ??s pledge to â??end tyranny in our worldâ?? than the United Statesâ?? role as the worldâ??s leading arms exporting nation,

As in the case of recent decisions to provide new F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan while pledging comparable high tech military hardware to its rival India, U.S. arms sometimes go to both sides in long brewing conflicts. And the tens of millions of U.S. arms transfers to Uzbekistan exemplify the negative consequences of arming repressive regimes.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/...WaW052505.html

United States has had the largest share of both new contracts and deliveries to the world for at least eight years in a row. None of the other countries dealing in weapons come even close to the US in the total amount of weapons delivered to developing nations over the past decade. The total value of arms transfer agreements the US signed with the developing countries was 54.8 billion dollars, which was more than the value of arms exports by all the other major arms suppliers (France, Russia, UK and China) put together during the same period.

http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsMay20...eatmay2005.htm

[Psycho4Bud]

It's starting to sound like we really agree on the basics here if not the fine details. And, I think we definitely agree that when all is said and done the fundy Muslims are much more of an immediate threat than China. Pakistan is who worries me the most. I can't beleive I'm the only one who can see some parallels between them and Iran 20 years ago. How long before some charismatic, hard core, fundamentalist comes to power after convincing the rest of the population that the Musharraf is just too accomodating to the Western heathens. Then it won't be about dealing with a fundy country who might be developing nukes. It will about dealing with a fundy country that already has them.

I agree about Pakistan...BAD situation!!! The only thing about them is that they hate the Hindu's of India just as much if not more than they hate us!

[BlueCat]

But Psycho we just sold Pakistan fighter jets and we are selling to India too.
How can you say you are worried about these countries but continue to support the US government as they are arming them?

[Psycho4Bud]

But Psycho we just sold Pakistan fighter jets and we are selling to India too.
How can you say you are worried about these countries but continue to support the US government as they are arming them?

I don't "worry" about any of these countries. Watch developements, yes! It's not as if we are arming these people to the point where their capable of invading us.

"Continue to support the US government"? How can I? Hell, thats easy. I'm a U.S. citizen, my father was in Korea, my son in Kosovo. This is MY country wrong or right and I will support her to the end. OH NO, patriotic bullshit!!! To bad! Everybody loves to slam dance on the U.S. but where are the posts of all the humanitarian aid? NONE!!! Tsunami hits who's one of the first on the scene with whatever is needed..HMMM, sure the hell not the French.

We're not perfect but we shine way the hell ahead of alot of others! When I did sales one of my product managers was from India. When a hurricane or some shit hit his "HOME COUNTRY" and killed thousands we had aid relief on TV and OUR country was sending aid. I talked to him on the phone and wished him the best; you know what his response was? "Thats just the scum! You Americans have all the aid crap and in my country we really don't care. They just repopulate anyways." Thats one of the main reasons why the U.S. shines!

You can concentrate on all the crap or look at the good. Tell me something though, if we are out for global domination why aren't Mexico and Canada states instead of independant countries? We could invade, take over, and the rest of the world would watch with their chins on their laps! Fuck it, you want to hate America go ahead, as for myself, I'll keep wavin' my flag!