Ron, many of the "glitzy graphics" you talk of are now standard on most sites, and are a simple piece of HTML that can be done in a matter of seconds. I know what you mean when you say that this site doesn't need those things, and it doesn't, because content is the most important thing.. but when you already have the content why not then update the aesthetics of the site aswell? These forums have all those "glitzy graphics" because they come as standard with the vBulletin software, right?