am I out of line ?

[Zandor]

This thread is moved moved to the Politics part of the forum.

It's takes great control not to just delete this too.

Zandor Reviewed by Zandor on 07-19-2005. am I out of line ? Howdy Zandor, I'm wondering..am I out of line for griping about HARDDON's choice of names for his plants ? Have a good one ... Rating: 5

[HARDDON]

NGOS....

If it werent for the Americans....

The entire planet would be under the rule of a 'Hitler' style government.

I wont attack you personally....

I dont do that anymore.

But just imagine how I feel towards your views.

I think maybe you should move to France....you will have a lot of people who share your views.

BTW....

I like US military bases all over the globe.

The more the merrier

[ickystkyme]

this is crazy shit

hey hardon..you know, i thought until today you were one of these 15 year olds in here? you DO demean women and you do use things like names for your plants to show that..i am with torog here, totally..and as for everyone else here who is trying to shit on torogs good and well resepcted name, i will just leave you with this..

people only fear what they do not understand..

ick..

[sheist]

plus you're so much consumed by the american way of life that you do not realise that it's your country that causes all these brutalities to happen around the globe in the name of liberty freedom and democracy.....

N. Korea's, China's, and Cuba's communist decisions are not because of America, get your facts straight. They're decisions are obviously their own. You don't see a big banner sayin "Communism. America made us this way." don't even give me that shit..

so in order to preserve our oil status we'd go into Iraq and BLOW THE SHIT UP? Guess wat jackass, alot of our bombs hit the oil reserves. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Secondly, our efforts have raised the prices on oils and gases. Now tell me why we would try and jeopardize the prices, being the capitalists that we are..

you also have no idea why GREEKS you say are meaningless to you maybe, open a history book and look how many centuries my country was free....

Now..

but don't try and seek praise for the work of ppl hundreds of years before your lineage was even contemplated. i'll give the props to ancient greece, but today, greece aint shit when it comes to it..

I did, stupid, learn to read..

during wwII we had the GERMAN opression for 5 years.....what did your country had ever to face?
ok, pearl harbor only.....then again this is nothing compared to the atomic bombs in NAGASAKI&HIROSIMA.....ring any bells?

First off.. Pearl harbor was attacked by the Japanese, hinted from the nazi regime that we were a threat. How did we start out? by supplying the British with defenses. wasn't like we were playing in our sandboxes n shit.. we took initiative immediately.. don't get pissed at us cus YOUR country couldn't do the same, whatever the reason.

Face it man and admit it, your country never sends troops where there is no financial interest.....and stop claiming respect because you fight against terrorism, that's just the cover.....

Back to the WWII.. during and before if you had checked you history books, if they put it in there, the world (if i'm not mistaken) was in a great depression. so don't go try and puttin the whole weight on our shoulders with that financial interest crap.. WE ALL DID IT..

You want to know why i had to go to the army? yes i did not like it....it is like a waste of time but i'll tell you why.....


simply because there is a nation nearby (TURKEY) which looks at us like a hungry boy looks the candies in front of a candy shop.....

Theres the difference.. you served in the forces because you had to.. Our men, the men like Hardyboy, they served in the forces because they WANTED TO. They CHOSE To. They were PROUD to. You? You sound like you RESENT it. REGRET it.

that's why you make wars my friend...in the end you try to have bases all around the wolrd so as to be able to transfer troops all around at any given time and chance.

Since ur not in the US, you wouldn't have seen. We've been calling Saddam's bullshit for years.. Mainly part of the fact that he was witholding information about al qaeda locations, as well aiding. We didn't do shit for a minute, until we were attacked. THATS when we pulled out the serious shit. Hell, we coulda lit their asses a long time ago, but we didn't. Peaceful resolve. BUT we were attacked.. 3, possibly more federal buildings destroyed, 3000+ civilians killed.

i can justify a war for liberty and freedom, my country has had many wars like these, we never attacked and became opressors in a foreign country.....it's much better to leave countries solve their problems by themselves.....bottom line: who the fuck do you think you are to involve to another countrys' politics?

many countries fought for liberty and freedom. my country's had'm too. You leave countries to solve problems by themselves and you places like Cuba who refuse to let their people leave the country, nor enter. I got family in Cuba that i can't even see. Bottom line: who the fuck do you think you are to assume that someone's life and rights aren't equal to your own? (this wasn't directly pointed to you. its just a support for the previous statement.) we went into Iraq, which was originally left to solve problems on its own, and then can a totalitarian government led by Saddam, who killed innocent people and whoever did not like the way he ran things.. Now lets put some equation to this.. Lets say you don't like Hardyboy and the way he does things.. But you grin and bear it.. But word gets around.. so I come around and kill you and hide your body. Would we be wrong? of course we would. Now this is only an analogy, not a threat. And you mean to call us wrong for stepping in on this? Thats what they call Crimes Against Humanity. We stepped in, We caught him, and you bite your tongue at us.

And you insult our history as it were nothing, when the ancestors left their countries to establish an ordinance of real liberty. Which is why France did the same thing. Which is why France built us a fucking statue, big as a building. Yea we had a civil war that involved slavery, but that was not the main issue. Unlike you, I tried to read up on your country before preachin that jazz. Return the favor.

[sheist]

and ick..

people fear higher power.

people Learn what they don't understand. And before you try to make your points, thoroughly read this thread, or else you'll end up like me n torog knockin eachother's walls down.

[ickystkyme]

ummm, ok..no reason to pick on me here..

i am accurate in saying people fear what they dont understand and what are you on me about with the not reading crap? i didnt say anything but basically i am with torog..i DID read and i DO agree with torog..maybe it is also being a texan and all, i dunno..i DO know i did not post anything to warrant your remarks, so i will accept your apology..

ick..

[newgroweroldsmoker]

hey bottom line is tha american soldiers are pussies, relying on hi-tech to beat the opponents......

Germany lost the WWII because they made the mistake invading the Soviet Union, during the operation Barbarossa the German army lost almost 2 million soldiers due to the heavy winter there......don't lecture me about america, and how the world would be without you.....if it wasn't the american agressive foreign policy the world could still be a great place to live.....as for my country, we were liberated on our own, France did allow the Germans to pass through while we faught them with all means nessessary and available....even italians attacked us with no luck.....sadly the greek front has fallen when the German air force has dropped napalm bombs at the greek strongholds.....don't lecture me about history man, you have no idea what is happening to the world if you do not read books and try to be an open minded person to new ideas and concepts.....
as for the technology that you use nowadays and bully the world with it, this technology it's not american, you should know that when Berlin has fallen many secret projects of the German army have passed under american control and have been badged ''US property''......you are just like the romans who took over control GREECE and started copying the entire GREEK civilisation, no wonder why rome is full of statues and buildings looking like the Parthenon and the GREEK temples......
Hardon i do not have really anything against you man, i told you earlier you're just a puppet, in fact we all are puppets in the game of politics, simply because other people tell us what is right and what is wrong....they try everyday to influence me,you,him,her with ideas and ideals that they want.....they keep the truth from people to know simply because the truth is too brutal for people to know......after all you guys may think that all AFGHANIS are mean, terrorists-like, ready to kill you etc. (it's their drugs that are consumed daily by the american society i.e. heroin)....
i still suggest to read some history for your own good.....some reading never hurt anyone....i am not trying to change your mind on this, maybe i'm trying to broaden your horizons a bit and think that apart from america there are other nations in this planet.....
do you feel the same pride when you hear names like:Vietnam,Afghanistan,Iraq.....etc...how many americans have to die fighting for economic interests? I would justify your attitude only in the case you were fighting for your liberty....in any other case you suck, and in the end you will return home with the head down because in every war the real loser is the american nation and the winner is some multinational companies who make large bucks, and that's what you really fight for my friend....you are just a small particle of a big money creating machine.....

i'll give you a last example to sum up with everything i say.....
Imagine you have a field that you want to cultivate cannabis.....it's full of stones, rocks and bad weed.....you need to prepare the soil first, the ground for cultivation......Iraq is such a field....it's full of oil reserves but because it's foreign property it's hard to put your hand in it.....you send troops there because you want the oil, you send them with excuses that are going to convince everyone that saddam is an opressor and such.....saddam has fallen and the media networks rushed in to cover everything...to show the poverty of Iraqi people, to show what a bad regime Saddam has created.....in reality things would have been much better if OPEC did allow IRAQ to export and sell it's oil (iraq is not part of opec even though it still has the biggest reamining oil reserves)....why would OPEC not allow Iraq sell it's rightfully owned resources? simply because the price of petroleum sould fall....do you understand now a bit of what i'm saying?.....all these years the iraqi government would exchange oil for medical supplies,,,you see now who is the real opressor? an entire country was not allowed to evolve in the name of money....what makes me laugh even more is that your government may seem all powerful, the truth is that you people are the weakest, you are contolled by those few that control the capital, it's them who control your president....he is a puppet as well....can't blame him to be honest....it's the money that makes world turn around nowadays, not the gravity.....


so, returning to the example.....iraq=the future cannabis field.....iraqi rebels=bad weed that needs to be removed.....oil rigs=cannabis plants.....do you get it now? if not, then you will do propably within a few years time when the price of oil will be even higher, propably because you will be importing it from abroad, from a country that your glorious army has ''liberated from the opressor''.......only then you will realise why you fight now and for what purpose........finally the thought that there are american bases all over the world should somehow bring thoughts in your mind....sure it shows that you are a powerful nation but at the same time the most hated one, more hated than the Germans anyway......they bullied europe only, you guys bully the entire globe!!!!!!



NGOS

[highinspain]

War whats it good for...........

The war on poverty US lost
The war on illiteracy US lost
The war on drugs US lost
The Vietnam war US lost
The Korean war US lost
The war on terrorism we all lose

I wish america luck, but the rest of the world, the other 6.5 billion of us might get sick and tired one day and call your bluff

If you want to win remove all of the overseas US troops and bases go home and threaten to use nuclear bombs on any one who attacks you force the other leaders of the middle east to control their own people. I dont care if those people live in a shitty environment I dont and i enjoy my freedoms and Spain is not a world power we are just trying to live

When does it end?

[sheist]

if u did read, u woulda seen that my comment to you was by comparison not a pick-on

sry if u got offended tho..

don't lecture me about history man, you have no idea what is happening to the world if you do not read books and try to be an open minded person to new ideas and concepts.....

i fight fire with fire.. and i wasn't lecturing about history, I was lecturing about the present, if anything.

this technology it's not american, you should know that when Berlin has fallen many secret projects of the German army have passed under american control and have been badged ''US property''......

here's a bit of correction.. german scientists left their country to the US and volunteered their services. Wasn't just because of the fall, stop trying to put a front up before everything and just call things the way they are.

and for ur info, Japan's the most hi-tech. i'm sure u kno that, so stop rallying us like we are.

an entire country was not allowed to evolve in the name of money....

funny you say that, because Saddam had millions to his name. Osama had millions to his name, he STILL does. it was a totalitarian issue. I stated my facts already, all you have to do is read them and try and be open minded to see that i do have a point, instead of lookin for the spots where i don't.

we can go on about this Greece is pathetic, America is pathetic shit.. thats what nationalism does. i'm proud to be an American. You're proud to be Greek. We have our ways. You have yours. But don't question our ways if u don't kno all the details, just as you didn't want me questioning yours.

all in all i'm tired of typing, i'm hungry, and i'm at work. we can get to this later lol

[Zandor]

N. Korea's, China's, and Cuba's communist decisions are not because of America, get your facts straight. They're decisions are obviously their own.

Thatâ??s the idea behind communist the people donâ??t get a say. They could not have made the decision it was made for them.

Theres the difference.. you served in the forces because you had to.. Our men, the men like Hardyboy, they served in the forces because they WANTED TO. They CHOSE To. They were PROUD to. You? You sound like you RESENT it. REGRET it.

I served myself, I signed up for money for college and because they paid for the gas for me to fly. I did my duty and honored my commitment. I even spent another year working for another branch of the government outside the US. I had no grand gesture in mind, but then we were the ones doing the attacking and not being attacked at that time. Times are different and this time they are given the respect and honor due the serving military. When you serve you have no opinion you follow orders period. Most of the serving solders are weekend warriors who join the reserves for money. They never thought they would see real action but now they are. Yes I have a lot of friends over there and no they are not happy but they are doing their duty. Their families are suffering at home but they are doing their duty. Just to put thing into perspective. The soldiers have no choice just follow orders and thatâ??s the way it is. Some did start out with altruistic motives but that soon fades when you watch your friendâ??s blow up just for giving candy to children. Or they get shot for just being there. They did not want to go over there none of them did. Nobody in their right mind does, trust me.

Since ur not in the US, you wouldn't have seen. We've been calling Saddam's bullshit for years.. Mainly part of the fact that he was witholding information about al qaeda locations, as well aiding. We didn't do shit for a minute, until we were attacked. THATS when we pulled out the serious shit. Hell, we coulda lit their asses a long time ago, but we didn't. Peaceful resolve. BUT we were attacked.. 3, possibly more federal buildings destroyed, 3000+ civilians killed. .

You must forget it was Bush SR. that placed him in power in the first place. Bush Sr. signed contracts to build oil refineries once he was in power. Then Saddam changed his mind and wanted more money, and we gave it to him. Saddam is our fault.

so in order to preserve our oil status we'd go into Iraq and BLOW THE SHIT UP? Guess wat jackass, alot of our bombs hit the oil reserves. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Secondly, our efforts have raised the prices on oils and gases. Now tell me why we would try and jeopardize the prices, being the capitalists that we are. .

The French had contracts signed with Saddam for them to buy and control the oil. The sitting government had to be removed to break those contracts. We blew up the oil pipes by design, how else could Halliburton rebuild them. Remember the secret contracts Dick Chaney signed before we were even told we were going to war. The same company he ran before he took the VP job, I wonder if there is a connection there?

First off.. Pearl harbor was attacked by the Japanese, hinted from the nazi regime that we were a threat. How did we start out? by supplying the British with defenses. wasn't like we were playing in our sandboxes n shit.. we took initiative immediately.. don't get pissed at us cus YOUR country couldn't do the same, whatever the reason. .

Really we did not join in the war as quick as you are think we did. For well over a year we turned out backs. Thatâ??s why the French still hate us. They asked for our help and we turned out back on them and the Germans moved in and took over. Same story with the Greeks they asked and we did nothing. The Turks had access to oil and land mass large enough for military basis and were willing to sell it to us cheep.
History is written by the winners and is not always the true story.

we went into Iraq, which was originally left to solve problems on its own, and then can a totalitarian government led by Saddam, who killed innocent people and whoever did not like the way he ran things.. .

True he did kill thousands or people. What about the Africa? More children are killed there everyday still today.
We as Americans were told we are going into Iraq because â??they are supporting Terrorist and have Weapons of mass destructionâ?�. That all turned out to be a lie. There are no Weapons of mass destruction and the only tie to terrorist is because we forced it. They aligned themselves with Bin laden only after we attacked them not before as Bush said.
Donâ??t start bragging about our Human rights records, what about the Native American Indians we killed because we wanted their land. We were the first to use biological weapons too ageist the Indians and the first to use the A-Bomb as well. 2 wrongs donâ??t make a right.
Iraq is noting but money, power and oil in that order. The solider on the ground dieing every day is due his respect by all means. Itâ??s the leaders of our country that should be ashamed of them self. We have not learned from out past mistakes in history and we will not learn from this one either. The winners write the history.
Yes we did help to free France but only after the Germans seized them in the first place. We were not as quick on the gun as you are saying we were.