Hurting Your Country

[Marlboroman]

Well, actually Torog, I know myself and PH have always contended that there are no liberals or conservatives. So I dont think that that is really the case about Hilary. Just means we wouldnt invade China for another 4 years till they can run Jeb.

But nothing would change, I seem to recall a little something called whitewater. And now Bush is being seud by the New York Firemans Wives Association for racketeering.

It is widely accepted that all polititians are scum bags and crooks.

So why is it so hard for you to maybe consider that you are being lied to?

Peace.

[Torog]

LMAO your source is Bill OLielly!! This guy lies so much they had to set up a website to sort of his lies www.lies.com

Again I have to ask Torog and Amster...with all your love of country and flag waving..why aren't you joining the fight to SAVE your country? And don't give me some pussy ass "I have a felony line" it won't work.. I personally know people in the marines WITH FELONIES. So what is it...why don't you join up...they are begging for people...see... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=810405
you are letting your country down...you support this war so much you should be fighting it. You need to be there and see it up close. You really need to see that 20 year old kid that came in TUesday with his face burned completely off, his nose gone, both ear drums exploded, Hey they saved an eye. You hear about the US soldiers killed. WHat you aren't hearing are the injuries.
Come on my little yellow arm chair soldiers....serve your country...
CAT

Howdy Blue Cat,

I have already served my country,in the Navy,and would do so now,if I wasn't too old and disabled..heck..I can still shoot just fine..although a SAW (squad automatic weapon),would probably wear me out pretty quick. As for being up close,I have already experienced Saudi culture up close,and I don't want to,ever again..but I would sure love to take some of em out ! Another front-line I'd like to go to,is much closer and doable,the mexican border...say..do ya reckon the mexican military,would retrieve it's dead,before retreating back into mexico ? Actually,I'd rather wound some of them and capture them,escorting drug shipments across the border,and catch em red-handed on this side of the border.

You see,apparently unlike you,I believe in spreading democracy and freedom..your son,is a liberator of the oppressed..and I'm very proud of him for that,as you should be. Just because you already have your freedom,doesn't mean that you should ignore those who don't have freedom. I have a cousin serving in South Korea,even as we speak,and I worry for his safety too. My family has fought in every war and conflict,since the birth of America and will continue to do so in the future.

Have a good one....

[Torog]

Yeah, ain't it a bitch that liberals wouldn't let the Bush administration get away with practicing torture?

(Just trying to steer this thread back to the point; I'm really tired of talking about Bush's lies for war)

The article says torture isn't as widespread as the media would have you believe, but O'Lielly forgot to mention the countless "detainees" that are sent to places like Egypt where torture is legal and very well-practiced. Wonder how that didn't make it into the piece?

The bastard also rather conveniently forgot that when he was White House Counsel, Attorney General Gonzales justified the use of torture as a means to get information out of "enemy combatants." If the cases of torture are overblown and only being committed at the direction of low-ranking troops, why is advice on torture being given at the highest level?

And lastly, not only is torture not an effective means to interrogate prisoners (any psychiatrist will tell you that a person will say anything to give them relief of extreme duress, even, gasp, lie), it's highly dangerous for American troops abroad. Torture is outlawed by the Geneva Convention because the only way a nation can try to influence how its troops are treated by the enemy is if they treat their own prisoners fairly. Why doesn't Patriot Bill "Felafel" O'Reilly express his outrage over that? Certainly any conservative worth his salt would be livid over anything that could cause harm to our military.

But no, it's the big, bad liberal media's fault. I don't get it.

What the hell is wrong with people that think this way? Since when did it become more of a sin to report a crime than to commit the damn thing?

And f*ck anybody who says that's "hurting America" or "being unpatriotic." That's the most insidious bullshit thinkable. Standing around while people trample the Constitution and international law (the ones that protect us too) is the real treason.

Howdy bhall,

The Geneva Convention,only applies to combatants wearing a uniform..not terrorists running around in civilian clothes and not a member of any armed forces.

So..now that we've eliminated the Geneva protections..why is it that you don't believe that terrorists should be tortured ? It takes only one terrorist,to detonate a wmd..it therefore behooves us,to use torture because of the need to stop a terrorist's plan in it's initial stages,because just one terrorist,can murder a million people..it only took 19 of em,to murder over 3000 people,on 9/11/01.

It seems to me,that no matter if it's a murderer,child molester,rapist or terrorist,y'all liberals are always more worried about their rights,than the rights of their victims...can you explain why that's so ?

You already have your freedom..why is it that you deny others,their freedom ? Why do you feel that it's wrong to liberate others from oppression ?

In the eyes of the terrorists,you are helping their cause and I'm sure that they are grateful for that too. In my eye's,you are aiding and abetting the enemy..and that makes you treasonous.

Have a good one...

[Torog]

Well, actually Torog, I know myself and PH have always contended that there are no liberals or conservatives. So I dont think that that is really the case about Hilary. Just means we wouldnt invade China for another 4 years till they can run Jeb.

But nothing would change, I seem to recall a little something called whitewater. And now Bush is being seud by the New York Firemans Wives Association for racketeering.

It is widely accepted that all polititians are scum bags and crooks.

So why is it so hard for you to maybe consider that you are being lied to?

Peace.

Howdy Marlboroman,

Well..to me,a sure sign of a liberal,is that they don't like being labeled a liberal.

Liberalism and Conservatism,are 2 distinct and opposite,mind-sets...studies have been done,that show that folks with a liberal mind-set,tend to be afflicted with more mental illnesses,than conservative folks,because liberals are slaves to their desires and impulses..whereas conservatives put aside their emotional impulses,and do the mature,responsible thing.

What do you think that I'm being lied to about ?

So far,we've managed to liberate over 50 million folks and establish democracy and freedom,where before..there was none. Apologize for that !

Have a good one....

[nicholasstanko]

well torog i think i can safel surmise that you've been deprived of one too many field rations. How the hell can you sit there and smugly refer to the geneva conventions applying to combatants in uniforms? you must have forgotten that the U.S. army wiped out their forces and are now going after people who know nothing about whats really going on except for the bombs that keep falling. so now its right to torture people and disgrace their religion just because they dont have nice crisp uniforms with shiny badges? fuck you torog. that's really fucking pretentious to assume that the iraqis that are fighting and dying know the full scale of what this war is about because we all know what wonderful and reliable media coverage they recieve. we have cnn and msnbc and a whole pile of first-world news sources and most people still dont know whats going on.
you sit there with your redneck "howdies" and quote others about how you and your family served in the military. you say you believe in spreading freedom but you never truly say you believe being in iraq doing whats being done right now is spreading that same freedom.

It's going to be a mighty sad day when american lives are in danger and their families beg the terrorists to show them the same mercy we've shown them. what happens then, torog? we torture civilians in retaliation in the name of freedom?


Later, y'all.

[amsterdam]

try to join the marines as a felon and see what happens

[nicholasstanko]

shaddap amsterdam

[Psycho4Bud]

Reasons to go to war?

How bout not abiding to U.N. resolutions...in which we went to the U.N. about this how many times..17? How many chances does all the libs buddy Sadamm get?

Maybe it was paying the families of Martyrs $25,000 for having body bombs strapped up for killing Jews and infedels.....you know...people like you!

The WMD's? Maybe...just maybe..if Turkey would have let the 4th division through instead of playing a political game of debt forgiveness at the last second, we could have intercepted some of this material leaving the country. OH NO! But Kerry said there was no WMD's....oh yea, that was after he said there was!

Killing of thousands of Kurds and Shiite's. Who gives a fuck...right masta libs!

It just kills some of these poor mind diluted libs that Iraq is making great strides in creating a democracy. GW was right? OHHHH NOOOO Mr. Bill! How can he be right and that murdering, rapist Kennedy in good ol' Mass be soooo very wrong. Ya know, using this murdering, rapist, as a role model will definately stunt all you libs intellectual growth!

By the way, I have a son in the service so I guess I to can speak allll the shit I want. VERY proud of him and if he comes home in a body bag I surely won't disgrace his name or effort by turning into one of these whining anti-government libs!

Here's a portrait for all you fine libs! NEVER FORGET!!!!

[Marlboroman]

Howdy Marlboroman,

Well..to me,a sure sign of a liberal,is that they don't like being labeled a liberal.

Liberalism and Conservatism,are 2 distinct and opposite,mind-sets...studies have been done,that show that folks with a liberal mind-set,tend to be afflicted with more mental illnesses,than conservative folks,because liberals are slaves to their desires and impulses..whereas conservatives put aside their emotional impulses,and do the mature,responsible thing.

What do you think that I'm being lied to about ?

So far,we've managed to liberate over 50 million folks and establish democracy and freedom,where before..there was none. Apologize for that !

Have a good one....

LOL, when both parties have the same agenda how can you possibly seperate the 2. and that may be YOUR defineing factor for what makes a so called liberal, but in reality there is so much more to the big picture than you even bother to look at.

Aside from that, your so called liberation of 50 million people only gave these people a new perception of what it should be like.

And if it goes your way it will be our peception of what freedom is. So after the world is all on the same page as far as freedom and the way it is perceived goes....

Who will you compare yourself to then?

will you finally start to care that your rights are being taken only after you have no one to compare yourself to? Only after you can actually tell yourself that the rag headed, sand trodders have the same rights as you?

(im not raceist but I have a feeling you might be, so i threw in some slang that might appeal to you)

Seems that the biggest argument for so called concervatives is that we have it so good here. But you wouldnt know how good you have it here if you didnt have others to compare to.

So think about that for a sec, By makeing the world on one even scale of good and bad, those at power are then free to manipulate the system world wide in good or bad ways as they see fit. You wont know the difference because you wont have anyone to compare to.

Also your children will grow up in this world and will know no other form of freedom than that which is being shown to them.

So, as your actively support the under mineing of our rights, your children will never even know they are gone.

And as you teach your children that the government is good and doing the right things and is protecting us, and that its anti american to disagree and voice your opinion to that extent.

You are then raiseing your children to support a facist state, and they will know no other form of right or wrong as goverment goes because even their own father has swallowed so much of the cool aid that he can not be brought back to life.

Further more, I am not sick, and mental illness doesnt have anything to do with being liberal or conservative. That sounds like a Bill O'Rielly talking point memo to me anyway.

There is a new movement out there now that says deppression should be treated as a mental illness, and that is total horse shit. Treating it as a mental illness means treating the symptoms instead of the cause, means prescribeing more and more anti-deppressants to the american people.

Ill break it down for you, before you out right call me full of shit you should research what I am about to tell you, for yourself. Talk to a few phycologists about these next few statement..


Depression is a direct by-product of stress.

Stress is a direct by-product of anger.

Anger is a direct by-product of fear.


These are researched truths taught to drug and alchohal thearapists and used in NA, and AA.

It's proven that if you ask yourself what you are afraid of when you are angry the fear and anger will pass when you confront the fear.

OK now that that is said, why do you think we have so many depressed people in the US?

If I listen to you its because they are all "Liberals".

It couldnt be that maybe the fear campaighn has anything to do with it? could it? The fear campaighn on the media everyday as millions watch couldnt have anything to do with the rise in deppression in millions of americans?

And why should I have to think of a lie you might have been told? Dont be so trusting and ask that question to yourself.

I trust you know what 3 card monty is, and you know that it isnt possible to win at it, its a con, and the men running it are stealing from the players. In fact they are crooks, scum bags, liars, and cheats.

Go figure, thats a publically accepted definition of a polititian too.

So why on earth would anyone, trust these men to tell the truth all the time?

Thats a question I ask you Torog.

Peace.

[Marlboroman]

Howdy Blue Cat,

I have already served my country,in the Navy,and would do so now,if I wasn't too old and disabled..heck..I can still shoot just fine..although a SAW (squad automatic weapon),would probably wear me out pretty quick. As for being up close,I have already experienced Saudi culture up close,and I don't want to,ever again..but I would sure love to take some of em out ! Another front-line I'd like to go to,is much closer and doable,the mexican border...say..do ya reckon the mexican military,would retrieve it's dead,before retreating back into mexico ? Actually,I'd rather wound some of them and capture them,escorting drug shipments across the border,and catch em red-handed on this side of the border.

You see,apparently unlike you,I believe in spreading democracy and freedom..your son,is a liberator of the oppressed..and I'm very proud of him for that,as you should be. Just because you already have your freedom,doesn't mean that you should ignore those who don't have freedom. I have a cousin serving in South Korea,even as we speak,and I worry for his safety too. My family has fought in every war and conflict,since the birth of America and will continue to do so in the future.

Have a good one....

Well here is something that we agree on Torog, we should be closeing our borders.

So tell me why our armed forces are off in the dessert freeing people that your would love to shoot a few of, while our borders go unprotected?

Seeing as your family has been fighting wars in every generation, it isnt a surprise to me that you think the way you do.

My family just like yours has had many generations of soldiers, I myself Honorably Discharged in 96' from the Navy.

I can tell you that looking at my own family and the character traits that are passed down from member to member. You and I were both more or less bred to be soldiers.

It's no secret that these men and women have disassociated themselves from emotion in order to fight. And that carries home to the children, and their children then learn to disassociate as well.

Because as many have said, once its turned on, they dont teach you how to turn it off. And they dont want to, If they teach you how to turn it off you wont pass that dissassociation to your children. And you will kill the key factor that keeps you thinking the way you do.

Use fear as a control.

Its all over the military, and in the battle feild it is what is needed, BUT, your kids dont need it.

And the long term effects of fear is deppression, unless you can effectivly disassociate your self from it.


But dont take my word for any of this, go talk to a proffesional as I have.

Find out the truth for yourself, but not even considering another side of the story is just you disassociateing yourself from the fear, in the form of denial.

Peace.