Parents Sue N.J. School for 'God' Song Ban

[amsterdam]

i would not go that far,but liberal thinking is screwing with our kids in schoool.

look at the aclu filing suit on school districts that allow dodgeball,or using red ink to grade papers.its scary.we are raising a pussy generation.

[bhallg2k]

Howdy bhall,
Yup..yer right,us conservatives are responsible for the current state of our education system,because we allowed liberal educators,to take over the schools and colleges..and now our schools and colleges are so infested with liberals,we may never get them out.

"...allowed liberal educators to take over the schools..."
"...our schools and colleges are so infested with liberals..."

Notice the language.

Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. This is what happens when you approach issues from an ideological standpoint rather than one based on history and fact. Not only do you end up totally wrong but you look like a damn fool along the way (that goes for liberals who do the same thing too).

Let's have this debate, Torog, when you have command of the facts rather than what you hear on the radio and TV.

As for Reagan,are you referring to the 'choking' of communism ? Thank God for Reagan,he 'choked' communism to death and brought down the Berlin Wall. He restored pride and moral,in our military,which had been laid waste to,by Carter and the dim's..yup,thank God for Reagan

Have a good one ....

I know that Reagan is the second coming of Christ for conservatives and Republicans, but come on. Get real. That's just a joke, based on conservative lore passed down like it was a bedtime story.

First off, if you want to give Reagan credit for the "choking of communism," allow me to direct your attention to China and North Korea. Remember them? Two communist countries, one the second largest in the world and the other a rogue state building nuclear weapons, are still standing.

Second, if you're going to give credit for the Soviet Union's fall to a man, rather than the universally accepted reason (it fell under its own weight; communism is an idea destined to fail because of human nature, which is why China is moving towards a more capitalistic society), then you need to give much more credit to Pope John Paul II, whose actions carried significantly more weight in Eastern Europe than Reagan could dream of. Reagan just liked to talk about it and look good, which is basically his entire presidency in a nutshell.

And honestly, why couldn't this debate remain about education? Why bring up communism at all? This is why things never get done.

I know it's damn hard for a conservative to make sense of education because historically, you people have sucked at it. But come at me with facts rather than rhetoric. Try to prove a valid point.

[Torog]

Howdy bhall,

You state: " Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. This is what happens when you approach issues from an ideological standpoint rather than one based on history and fact. Not only do you end up totally wrong but you look like a damn fool along the way (that goes for liberals who do the same thing too). "

So..does this mean that you think that there are no liberals in the education system ?

At least under conservatives,children graduated being able to read,write and do math..under liberals,that no longer matters..being politically-correct,is all that matters to them now.

Have a good one ...

[amsterdam]

being politically correct or not letting anyone get their feelings hurt.

[sensiskunk]

Howdy bhall,

You state: " Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. This is what happens when you approach issues from an ideological standpoint rather than one based on history and fact. Not only do you end up totally wrong but you look like a damn fool along the way (that goes for liberals who do the same thing too). "

So..does this mean that you think that there are no liberals in the education system ?

At least under conservatives,children graduated being able to read,write and do math..under liberals,that no longer matters..being politically-correct,is all that matters to them now.

Have a good one ...

Wow, thats really ironic, i scored top 5% in math in my state, and top 10% in english. Thats more than GW can say, his dumb ass had a C avg in college. I couldnt even get a C if i wanted to, but yet, im still the dumb one huh? You didnt even attempt to answer bhall's post, because you have no answer. You know nothing, and you just proved it by completely changing subjects and trying to attack liberals once again. If anything, republicans are the ones that only care about political correctness. Plus, im getting an academic scholarship, also more than you, and GW could say, but yet im still the dumb one? Republicans base their arguments on attacking liberals, mainly because their policies are shit, and everyone knows it, except obviously the republicans. Money and power is republicans main concern, but they cant seem to help the economy, or conclude the war in iraq, seems like their waiting for a liberal to come and fix it, like we always do. Then once we do fix it, theyll go on the attack once again. So, because of MY accomplishments academically, i can conclude that it is republicans that arent in the education system!

[Fengzi]

Bottom line, folks, is that both the liberals and concervatives are to blame. Each group is so fucking hell bent on saying they're right and the other is wrong that they go to extremes. The correct path is not to the far right or far left but down the middle.

Me personally, I'm an aethiest, but if a little girl wants to sing a song about god in a school talent show let her. How the hell does it hurt me? It's like the jackass out here in California who was suing to have the words "under god" removed from the pledge of allegience. Shit, it never bothered me while I was in school. I just didn't say those words. So what if everybody else did?

One the other hand, there's the concervatives who bitch and moan every Halloween when little kids dress up and have their school Halloween parties. "It's a holiday celebrating the devil...blah, blah, blah" Go fuck yourselves. I seriously doubt any of these kids are trying to conjure Satan. It's called fun you religious jackasses.

Come on everybody, why can't we do what is right. Just think what we could do if we put all the money that is pouring into the war in Iraq into our schools. And what if we raised the standards, failed kids who needed to fail , and made sure that every kid who gets a high school diploma actually deserved it. I know it will never happen but I can dream, can't I?

[bhallg2k]

So..does this mean that you think that there are no liberals in the education system ?

At least under conservatives,children graduated being able to read,write and do math..under liberals,that no longer matters..being politically-correct,is all that matters to them now.

Have a good one ...

Why do you always miss the point, man? I ask this sincerely. Are you really so stuck in your own ideology that you can't even recognize anything else?

Does it matter if there are liberals in the education system? Does it matter if there are conservatives? You're never going to have a fully one-sided education system. Ever. And I don't give a rip either way and neither should you, just so long as kids come out properly educated. Just as an aside, it might help attract more Republican teachers if you paid teachers a better salary.

The point is that Republicans and conservatives don't know how to run a system of education, no matter who is in it.

For whatever reason, conservatives seem to think that cutting off funding is the only way to make education better. The only proposals and laws regarding education coming from Republicans have been budget reductions. Hell, Reagan tried to eliminate the cabinet-level Department of Education and W hasn't funded his campaign promise of No Child Left Behind. You guys see failing test scores and failing schools and immediately move to reduce funds, saying, "We're wasting money." That's NOT how it works and has been proven by the fact that test scores fall more often under Republicans than under Democrats. That's a fact.

The schools that are failing are failing because they are underfunded and left to fall apart. The kids that are failing are failing because not enough resources are being spent on them; many inner city students don't even have their own textbooks. It has nothing to do with a teacher's liberal or conservative ideology.

Come on, you should know this. Any time something in the military isn't working right, you guys just throw money at it like it grows on trees. And nine out of ten times, it SOLVES THE PROBLEM.

I know that it can be said that liberals just want to spend and spend and spend. And that argument can be valid at times. But seriously, doesn't it make sense to put kids in schools with decent computers, the Internet, music classes, art classes, PE classes, science labs and textbooks for everyone? Depending on where you live, most kids don't have those things in their school. Some don't even have a real classroom. And so often when we talk about failing students and failing schools around the country, it's those that we are referring to.

We spend a lower percentage of GDP on education here in the U.S. than any other industrialized nation. Why do you wonder why our kids' test scores are always the lowest among those from industrialized nations?

(And Amsterdam, if you want to point your finger at liberals for political correctness in schools [axing dodgeball, red ink, etc], you'd do better to point your finger at idiot parents for starting these ridiculous initiatives)

[EverydayJunglist]

this thread is 3 pages of Bhall2gk tearin it up! Rock the fuck on

[amsterdam]

Why do you always miss the point, man? I ask this sincerely. Are you really so stuck in your own ideology that you can't even recognize anything else?

Does it matter if there are liberals in the education system? Does it matter if there are conservatives? You're never going to have a fully one-sided education system. Ever. And I don't give a rip either way and neither should you, just so long as kids come out properly educated. Just as an aside, it might help attract more Republican teachers if you paid teachers a better salary.

The point is that Republicans and conservatives don't know how to run a system of education, no matter who is in it.

For whatever reason, conservatives seem to think that cutting off funding is the only way to make education better. The only proposals and laws regarding education coming from Republicans have been budget reductions. Hell, Reagan tried to eliminate the cabinet-level Department of Education and W hasn't funded his campaign promise of No Child Left Behind. You guys see failing test scores and failing schools and immediately move to reduce funds, saying, "We're wasting money." That's NOT how it works and has been proven by the fact that test scores fall more often under Republicans than under Democrats. That's a fact.

The schools that are failing are failing because they are underfunded and left to fall apart. The kids that are failing are failing because not enough resources are being spent on them; many inner city students don't even have their own textbooks. It has nothing to do with a teacher's liberal or conservative ideology.

Come on, you should know this. Any time something in the military isn't working right, you guys just throw money at it like it grows on trees. And nine out of ten times, it SOLVES THE PROBLEM.

I know that it can be said that liberals just want to spend and spend and spend. And that argument can be valid at times. But seriously, doesn't it make sense to put kids in schools with decent computers, the Internet, music classes, art classes, PE classes, science labs and textbooks for everyone? Depending on where you live, most kids don't have those things in their school. Some don't even have a real classroom. And so often when we talk about failing students and failing schools around the country, it's those that we are referring to.

We spend a lower percentage of GDP on education here in the U.S. than any other industrialized nation. Why do you wonder why our kids' test scores are always the lowest among those from industrialized nations?

(And Amsterdam, if you want to point your finger at liberals for political correctness in schools [axing dodgeball, red ink, etc], you'd do better to point your finger at idiot parents for starting these ridiculous initiatives)

i suppose the democrats could lead a wonderful govt. run educationsystem.

no thanks.

[Funken Monken]

[QUOTE=amsterdam]i would not go that far,but liberal thinking is screwing with our kids in schoool.

QUOTE]


Can I add a provizo that that is relevant only in the US?

Over here many ideologies are inherent in education, as it whats makes for a balanced view, and we all want our kids to have a balanced and informed perspective on the world, dont we?

For an example, going back a few years now, when my old colleage had an open night, once of the history teachers set upa stand pretending he was a member of the Nazi party, and spent all night saying why we should go for the nazi manefesto. Not the genocide, anti-semetism, but the actual selling points that helped get the Nazis in. Devils advocate in a debate basically.
The college got complaints like you wouldnt beleive, as you'd expect, so said history teacher invited all the upset paretns back and layed it down - "we dont teach one perspective, we teach those that are relevant to the subject so your child can see all the sides and draw an informed conclusion. With the example you saw, your children would be able to give me a full critique by the end of term".
Parents were chuffed to bits.