Quote Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
I kind of have to crack up when somebody admits to admiring religous "do-gooders".

If your nuns in Africa, or the organization(s) they represent, deny the people in third world countries the right to have birth control, then they are contributing to the problems of poverty - and all of the diseases that could be prevented with condoms and safe sex. Condemning condoms is not "good" - it's stupid. Africa has, I believe, the highest Aids outbreak in the world. The Church could care less, and tells them to use abstinence.

Mother Theresa's homes for the dying were just that - she believed that people's afterlife was more important than life here on earth. She, however, flew around in jets and was wined and dined by rogues, dictators, and various scoundrels. She turned down a building that was offered to her, to be used as a hospital in NYC, because it had ELEVATORS - she did not believe in them!

The churches opposed most all of the scientific and medical discoveries in the world. It was the men of knowledge, not the superstitious idiocy of anti-human priests that made our life spans go from 20 something in biblical times to what it is today. Next time you need medical care, whom are you going to go to - a doctor or a priest?

Itâ??s the heretics, infidels and other freethinkers that make the world better â?? not the religious. All real progress in the world is outside of religion, not because of it.

Just my opinion.
Yes, you make some good points, especially that the church contributes to the AIDS problem by denying condoms to people. However, I'm not talking so much about organized religion as those individuals who are motivated to do good in the world because of their faith, or inspired by figures in their religion, whether it be Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, or a Hindu God. Many of these people may not adopt every principle of their religion, but still believe in God, and this drives them to help people.

Remember, I was raising the issue of atheists vs. those who believe in God, because someone wrote that an atheists point of view was more accepting and "good" than a religious person's.

BTW, I wouldnt say that all progress was made outside of religion. You totally discount those achievements by scientists and artists whose work was a result of their faith, such as Isaac Newton. We wouldnt live so long if it wasnt for his achievments in math and science, and look at Bach. Everything he wrote was in the name of God. Any kind of Western music we listen to was directly influenced by him.

I never said that religious people do more good than atheists. Atheists and infidels, in my opinion, ushered in the Enlightenment and were very important in their own right. But progress in the world has been in the sphere of religion and outside of it.