Damping?

[Token LaRoche]

I kinda started this in the Indoor forum, but now that it's a real problem... And apologies in advance for this being a little long.

I think I'm dealing with damping here, or at least that's the closest I can find. Germinate and plant a seed. Seed grows to an inch, inch and a half out of the ground and then the plant just falls over, dead. Here's pix:

Attachment 295178Attachment 295179

These seeds germinated in about 24 hours and were planted then. The "fall over" happened 8 days later (so a little over 9 days, including germination). Two seeds (completely different strains), both fell over the same night and they're the only seeds I started (so I'm considering this a 100% failure). In fact, this is round 2 -- the last 3 I planted went the same way a couple weeks ago.

Roots sure look (to me) like they're going good, then all of a sudden...

Shovelhandle mentioned using a hydrogen peroxide solution to start, and I've been doing this. Mixed 5:1 water/hydrogen peroxide and then pH balanced to 6.0. (Shov said to use 4:1, but I was being real conservative). These died in the same way and in the same amount of time as the last batch, so it doesn't appear that the H2O2 had any effect.

Soil is coco coir / perlite, so the plants haven't seen any food yet (no nutrition in that soil). Last round, I had already started diluted food (FF) by now, but that didn't help any. Soil is still just a little damp and I'm not overwatering. Lighting is 18/6 6500K T5.

WTF? Some sort of soil contamination? I'm about down to that. This isn't the same coco/perlite as last time, but it's from the same batch.

What would be the best "zero maintenance" real soil to try to eliminate this as a variable? Maybe some Ocean Forest? Any other ideas at all? Is it time to give up on the coco coir?

TIA

Token LaRoche Reviewed by Token LaRoche on 10-02-2013. Damping? I kinda started this in the Indoor forum, but now that it's a real problem... And apologies in advance for this being a little long. I think I'm dealing with damping here, or at least that's the closest I can find. Germinate and plant a seed. Seed grows to an inch, inch and a half out of the ground and then the plant just falls over, dead. Here's pix: 295178295179 These seeds germinated in about 24 hours and were planted then. The "fall over" happened 8 days later (so a little Rating: 5

[Shovelhandle]

Coco coir? It could be very salty. Soak and wash that stuff. Google online into the brand that you're using and see what others do or are experiencing.

In the meantime I'd use a seed starter mix (or plain, finely ground peat moss). 18+ hours of light a day.

[Token LaRoche]

Will do, and thanks again! Rinsed this stuff, but will do some reading.

Had some trouble like this on the first round, but managed to get two good plants once they were out of the baby stage. This time, no luck and it's starting to get expensive.

[Token LaRoche]

Adding more data (maybe it'll help someone else).

Got a handy-dandy EC meter recently and hadn't used it. Thought I'd try an experiment and measure the EC going into the coco and again coming out. Meter shows 240 on the tap water here and after being run through the coco once, it reads about 400-405. Rinse the soil out for a minute or two (did this with my dead plants) and it dropped to about 270. I don't know much about EC, but this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. <shrugs> Need to read up on that more.

So far, it looks like a lot of people "prep" coco coir with CalMag and everyone suggests washing it first.

[galt]

Some versions of coco that are sterilized end up loaded with salts. So if you have that type, definitely soak and rinse it well before use.

But damping off is too much water. Period. If you use paper towel method, get them out paper towel as soon as the the first tip appears, less than 1/4 inch long. That is often where the trouble starts. An extra 12 hours in paper towels and those seeds are potentially a problem. Then try letting them dry out around day 4 or 5, once you have a true set of leaves. If you water every two days, skip one more day but watch for wilting. It doesn't have to get really dry, just skip a day around the 4th or 5th day after emergence. If that does not work, treat them with a fungicide before germinating and handle them cleanly.

[Token LaRoche]

Hi galt-

Thanks! EC says that salts aren't bad, but I'll rinse the coco anyway. My last two rounds were two seeds each (100% germination using paper towel in baggie). I've pulled the seeds soon and planted them (about 24 hours from the first time the seeds saw water). Just using pH adjusted tap water (latest batch has hydrogen peroxide).

Stopped by a local hydro store on the way home from work today and talked to a plant girl there. Explained it all to her and she's thinking basics. Bring the lights down to plant level and use a fan to build stalk strength. No need to use CalMag or whatever until the plants are ready for feeding.

This is my second real grow and I had problems at this stage with the last round, but got two great plants when it all finally worked. Round 3: lights and air, let's try this! <g>

Geeze, who thought that growing a friggin' WEED would have a stumbling block or two?

[polishpollack]

If you not using potting soil, use it instead.

[catbuds]

Damping off fungus can be transmitted many ways, are you re-using growing containers? Anthing that may have come in contact with the previous grow that was affected? Make sure EVERYTHING that comes in contact with new soil, containers, or seeds has been washed well in hot water or is new. Being a fungus, dormant spores can become airborne. Follow Shovels advice on the peroxide. I don't like coco coir, personal preference, try milled spaghnum moss (a form of peat moss) & perlite. I like to sterilize my growing medium by moistening it, placing in a baking dish (several) & placing in oven pre heated to 180º for an hour. This will kill pathogens than may be in the mix. I only occasionally see damping off in the greenhouse if I over look a condensation drip hitting a seed flat. Not because of the extra water so much as the fact that wet surfaces attract fungus spores & the drip contaminates soil/surfaces that it splatters on. If you still have the problem after all this, I'd question the air intake. Re-locating may be the solution.
----I'm sorry you had this problem. Tracking down the source of any pathogen contamination can be difficult. BTW, that's definitely damping off.~~~PEACE!~~~

[catbuds]

Galt, damping off isn't necessarily from TOO MUCH water. Its a fungus disease that thrives in moisture. Sometimes where spores are present, all it takes is just enough moisture for seedlings to survive for this fungus to proliferate. Although over watering can certainly attract the spores, if the spores are already there, all it takes is just a little moisture.~~~PEACE!~~~

[Token LaRoche]

If you not using potting soil, use it instead.

I know... It might come to that. It's almost evolved into a "coco against me" deal. I really want to figure this out.

How you been, polish?