To sub or not to sub?

[Burnt Toast]

Am I setting myself up for failure? I assume these home kits only test to 50ngs. Does anyone know what Quest tests to (15ngs?) and are there home kits that test to THAT level so I can get a better idea on if I really will piss clean come next week or if I need to be looking at more drastic measures?

Quest Diagnostics uses an assay screen for the initial analysis (usually at a 50 ng/ml cutoff limit). If the sample fails the initial screen, then the sample undergoes the confirmation GC/MS, which has a cutoff threshold of 15 ng/ml.

But dont let the differing cutoff levels worry you. By doing an Advanced Search with the terms "functionally equivalent metabolites", you'll discover that even though their cutoffs numerically differ, a 50 ng assay screen is functionally equivalent to the 15 ng GC/MS.

Search, read, and learn :thumbsup:

[Ecupirate87]

Ecupirate87: you were clean 44 days and still felt the need to sub? Just curious as to why as it seems you'd pass naturally imo, or do I have no idea what i'm talking about? (I am admittedly green -- no pun intended -- when it comes to testing but I need to learn FAST!).

I ask because I will be 30 roughly 30 days (mostly) clean when I have to pee early next week. I say "mostly" because I did really mess up and have 4 hits in the last 10 days or so before I realized I'd have to screen (2 hits about 10 days ago, 2 more 3 days ago). But I got a home kit and tested negative with a pretty firm pink strip. I'm not letting that make me lazy but it did give me hope that with some other minor preparations -- starting exercise for the next week, plenty of water -- that I could pee clean without doing anything else that might arouse suspicion (cleansing teas, subbing, etc.)

Am I setting myself up for failure? I assume these home kits only test to 50ngs. Does anyone know what Quest tests to (15ngs?) and are there home kits that test to THAT level so I can get a better idea on if I really will piss clean come next week or if I need to be looking at more drastic measures?

Hey hickory, i most likely was clean. I was not willing to risk it, though. Mostly because subbing was so easy.

Burnt, a question for you, today is 6 days after my test. HR emailed me today because a question arose during my background check.

She told me the check would be done tomorrow. No mention of the drug test.

Is it safe to assume that I passed, or too early to tell? Im dying to smoke!!

[hickory]

Thanks, Ecupirate87. I'm beginning to feel the same way, but I'll elaborate on that in another post here in a sec.

For now, question for BURNT: I've done a lot of reading today but this statement from you still throws me: "even though their cutoffs numerically differ, a 50 ng assay screen is functionally equivalent to the 15 ng GC/MS."

Not sure I follow since I thought ng's were the unit of measurement that a test looked for, ie, if you're taking a 15ng test then you need to be at 14 or less to avoid detection, whereas if you're taking a 50ng test, you only need to be at 49ng's to avoid a positive. Is that not the case? Those two seem very different to me and my fear is that even as I test at home over and over and get negatives, that it may be only because I'm somewhere between 15-49 ng's (ie, not truly "clean"). And if that's the case, the wrong kinda test -- one testing down to 15ng's would blow me out of the water, right?

Seems like your saying it's standard for initial screens (aka: assay screen) to test only to detect > 50ng's and only if you fail that do they look harder and test to 15 ng's via the GC/MS but that other than that, both tests are functionally/procedurally the same?

[hickory]

So this may be overkill, but after a day of digging in and reading to learn what I can, here's where I'm landing for my test next week:

I'll save my money and use the "Tips for Diluting" as my backup plan instead of throwing a bunch of money at a cleansing product.

I'm a little nervous about getting the temp right using subbing, but it seems like the only sure way to not get a positive so that feels like it should be my Plan "A" because like Ecupirate87, I simply cannot risk not passing this test.

Question though: is real urine better than the synthetic stuff? It would seem like any lab worth a damn would have ways to detect the synthetic stuff, so that worries me... I do have a non-smoking friend who I know would donate his urine for me but he lives 90 minutes away and he'd likely have to call in sick to come give me his pee the day of my test. My wife doesn't smoke and I could use hers, but I still feel a little wary using a female's pee even though I've read it doesn't matter... So what so you, Burnt: synthetic, beg my friend to do me a solid so i have male pee, or just use my wife's?

The synthetic stuff I've seen comes with a heating pack that you rubber band to the urine bottle and I like that A LOT, so was thinking of buying that just for that even if I decide to use real urine. I'm just so nervous about getting in there and having it be 103 or 86. I would freak.

[Ecupirate87]

So this may be overkill, but after a day of digging in and reading to learn what I can, here's where I'm landing for my test next week:

I'll save my money and use the "Tips for Diluting" as my backup plan instead of throwing a bunch of money at a cleansing product.

I'm a little nervous about getting the temp right using subbing, but it seems like the only sure way to not get a positive so that feels like it should be my Plan "A" because like Ecupirate87, I simply cannot risk not passing this test.

Question though: is real urine better than the synthetic stuff? It would seem like any lab worth a damn would have ways to detect the synthetic stuff, so that worries me... I do have a non-smoking friend who I know would donate his urine for me but he lives 90 minutes away and he'd likely have to call in sick to come give me his pee the day of my test. My wife doesn't smoke and I could use hers, but I still feel a little wary using a female's pee even though I've read it doesn't matter... So what so you, Burnt: synthetic, beg my friend to do me a solid so i have male pee, or just use my wife's?

The synthetic stuff I've seen comes with a heating pack that you rubber band to the urine bottle and I like that A LOT, so was thinking of buying that just for that even if I decide to use real urine. I'm just so nervous about getting in there and having it be 103 or 86. I would freak.

If you're set on subbing, trust me.. It's super easy. I practiced 100 times out of paranoia, but it is as easy as it looks. Just practice.

Your wife, your friend, or quickfix will work. Heat it up to 100 in a cup of hot water, attach a head pad to the bottom, crotch it. Easy.

[Burnt Toast]

I've done a lot of reading today but this statement from you still throws me: "even though their cutoffs numerically differ, a 50 ng assay screen is functionally equivalent to the 15 ng GC/MS."

Not sure I follow since I thought ng's were the unit of measurement that a test looked for, ie, if you're taking a 15ng test then you need to be at 14 or less to avoid detection, whereas if you're taking a 50ng test, you only need to be at 49ng's to avoid a positive. Is that not the case? Those two seem very different to me and my fear is that even as I test at home over and over and get negatives, that it may be only because I'm somewhere between 15-49 ng's (ie, not truly "clean"). And if that's the case, the wrong kinda test -- one testing down to 15ng's would blow me out of the water, right?

A 50 ng assay is functionally equivalent to the 15 ng GC/MS. The reason why the cutoffs numerically differ is that the assay, being a non-selective methodology, recognizes all 31 metabolite concentrations combined while the GC/MS recognizes only one metabolite concentration.

THC enters the body in its ingested form and exits the body as 31 different metabolite concentrations. The most prevalent form of these metabolite concentrations is the THC-COOH concentration.

For the sample to test negative on the assay screen, the whole combination of the 31 metab concentrations must be below 50 ng.

The GC/MS, being a selective and more accurate methodology, recoginzes only the metabolite concentration that matters the most: the THC-COOH concentration. In order for the sample to be GC/MS-negative, only the THC-COOH metabolite concentration must register below 15 ng/ml. Because the GC/MS only recognizes one metabolite concentration (as opposed to the assays recognition of all 31 metabolite concentrations combined), the cutoff has to be set at a numerically lower limit in order to make the two types of tests functionally equivalent.

[hickory]

Thanks, Ecupirate87. Coupla questions though:

- How exactly do I "practice"? Since I really like the provided "heater" to keep the temp constant, I like going with Quick Fix, but is the heater it comes with reusable? If I can practice heating the water, getting it to 90-100, applying the heater, crotching, uncrotching, pouring etc. that'd be great, but it kinda looks like the heating device might be single use (or is it)?

Passing a drug test with Quick Fix Synthetic Urine - YouTube

(I assume it's ok to post this product link since they are a sponsor of the site, but if not I apologize!)

Also, in the video above, it talks about taking the bottle out at the test and "making sure the temp is between 90-100, but... what if it's not??? That's my biggest fear. If it's over, I can give it a minute or two to cool, but if it's under, I'm pretty much hosed, right? If that happens, should I go to my plan B which is to have my own urine diluted using the tips posted in these forums?

Any feedback you have there would be great. I'm obviously pretty effin' stressed about this test....

[hickory]

Thanks for the explanation BT. I was thinking they were the same test but just testing to different levels of THC-COOH, so was worried these over-the-counter tests were kinda useless in testing only for very, very high levels while live screens from places like Quest were testing for much lower levels.

But, if the at-home tests match up pretty well to what someone like Quest would do, I'm going to test my first-thing-in-the morning pee tomorrow and see if I pass. I passed one w-flying colors last night but that was at 11:30 pm and after drinking a big glass of Gatorade and then a big glass of water followed by several urinations before I peed into the collection cup.

If I pass tomorrow morning, should I bother with all this other stuff or just maybe drink a few glasses of water and pee before I go screen?

[un1bomber]

Thanks, Ecupirate87. Coupla questions though:

- How exactly do I "practice"? Since I really like the provided "heater" to keep the temp constant, I like going with Quick Fix, but is the heater it comes with reusable? If I can practice heating the water, getting it to 90-100, applying the heater, crotching, uncrotching, pouring etc. that'd be great, but it kinda looks like the heating device might be single use (or is it)?

Passing a drug test with Quick Fix Synthetic Urine - YouTube

(I assume it's ok to post this product link since they are a sponsor of the site, but if not I apologize!)

Also, in the video above, it talks about taking the bottle out at the test and "making sure the temp is between 90-100, but... what if it's not??? That's my biggest fear. If it's over, I can give it a minute or two to cool, but if it's under, I'm pretty much hosed, right? If that happens, should I go to my plan B which is to have my own urine diluted using the tips posted in these forums?

Any feedback you have there would be great. I'm obviously pretty effin' stressed about this test....

Here's how I practiced. First, I wanted to know how long I could be waiting in the waiting room before the sample was too cold for me to feel safe. So I put the QuickFix in the microwave and heated until it was at 100F. Then I crotched it. I went about my daily activities. For the most part I was sitting down, but I got up to walk from time to time to also feel safe walking normally.

After 15 minutes I checked the temp. Then 10 minutes later I checked the temp. Then every 5 minutes.

I didn't have the heating pad in my crotch with the bottle. I suppose you could do that, just sounds uncomfortable. But as a note, the heating pad is just a regular hand warmer you can buy from the store or walmart.

The heating pad is not reusable, just like all chemical hand warmers.

What I also practiced was going into the bathroom and uncrotching the bottle, squirting the quickfix into a cup and putting the bottle back. Made me feel safer knowing I could do it without fumbling.

The at home tests are just about as accurate as anything the lab has. They are rated the same in general. If you pass an at-home test with flying colors, I'd say don't bother subbing. You don't need the extra stress of trying to sub out the urine if you know you'll pass.

[Ecupirate87]

Here's how I practiced. First, I wanted to know how long I could be waiting in the waiting room before the sample was too cold for me to feel safe. So I put the QuickFix in the microwave and heated until it was at 100F. Then I crotched it. I went about my daily activities. For the most part I was sitting down, but I got up to walk from time to time to also feel safe walking normally.

After 15 minutes I checked the temp. Then 10 minutes later I checked the temp. Then every 5 minutes.

I didn't have the heating pad in my crotch with the bottle. I suppose you could do that, just sounds uncomfortable. But as a note, the heating pad is just a regular hand warmer you can buy from the store or walmart.

The heating pad is not reusable, just like all chemical hand warmers.

What I also practiced was going into the bathroom and uncrotching the bottle, squirting the quickfix into a cup and putting the bottle back. Made me feel safer knowing I could do it without fumbling.

The at home tests are just about as accurate as anything the lab has. They are rated the same in general. If you pass an at-home test with flying colors, I'd say don't bother subbing. You don't need the extra stress of trying to sub out the urine if you know you'll pass.

What unabomber said is the way to go.

So do you guys think im fine? 6 days later and they called me today about my background check without mention of the test.

Am I safe to smoke or should I wait until i start?