My turn - Stunted growth?

[polishpollack]

Sponge wasn't the right word to use. yes, you're right, it's like a brittle rock and can be crushed between the fingers. That's what I should have said. Vermiculite holds moisture, but anytime I've read about perlite, the info stated the purpose was to hold moisture. More reading shows that it's used to retain water and air.
"In horticultural applications, perlite is used throughout the world as a component of soilless growing mixes where it provides aeration and optimum moisture retention for superior plant growth."
It really can't do both at the same time, which I guess is why vermiculite is added.

[low_rdr]

perlite is for air - vermiculite is pointless, its an added expense, might as well just use the coco coir. There are some people that swear by it, I don't know why. I think what I like about perlite the most, is that even though its so fine, I've actually seen roots grow right THROUGH IT! I think thats sooo cool!

As far as nutrients, I disagreed that plants that small should receive them, in the very next post I realized the plants were 3 weeks old. What changed was the age of the plant (I hadn't noticed before), seedlings are hatched with enough nutrients to get them through the first few weeks of life, added nutrients aren't needed, just proper care. When I learned the plant was indeed a few weeks old, and not the week old seedling I thought it was, then I agreed that a total lack of nutrition could lead to starvation.

I've never made any suggestions as to growing in FFOF is wrong. I think FFOF mixed with perlite and coco coir are a great combination, up to 40%. The reason I like up to 40% FFOF in my 50/50 blend of coco/perlite is because I like the added benefit of the nutrients allows me to be a little more free with my soil type grow. For seedlings, clones - I think its too hot to use out of the bag. As far as people using 100% FFOF and thriving - That's good for them! I firmly think everyone should find a type of grow that works best for them and stick to it! Personally, soil isn't the best for me, but I posted what I have experience with in this matter. I've done 40% FFOF added to a 50/50 blend of coco coir and perlite, exactly how much is that? That's 40% of the total mass of 10 meters of coco coir and 10 meters of perlite, so 4 meters (estimated) of FFOF.

As for perlite not adding air - Perlite itself might not actually add air to the grow, but the point of perlite is not to hold in water, it is to take up space in your grow medium that won't compact when wet. Perlite allows air into the grow because its tiny pores hold oxygen in, even when wet, and release them into the roots of the plant. To test this you can simply use .5-2 cups perlite, put in a bowl, submerge with water, then put a screen down, and watch the bubbles rise. Then, empty the bowl, let the perlite dry, and repeat. Perlite also makes a great (but messy) base for a complete hydro grow. Perlite is CONSIDERED (but isn't always) PH neutral, since the organic structure of perlite consists of dioxides, it can sometimes raise/lower your plants PH, this is seldom the case, but rest assured, if your perlite does cause a PH imbalance, its a good thing, that means its releasing additional dioxides which for the most part, are good for your plant.

Thanks for asking Polish, I'm sure theres alot of good info in that post!

[Token LaRoche]

Good read, all -- thanks for all the great info!

Some pics two days after transplant. Here's Laverne:
Attachment 290489Attachment 290490

And here's Shirley:
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Right at 4 weeks from seed now, and they still seem pretty small to me, but they're definitely growing. Very little distance between the nodes and the plants are only 2 to 3 inches tall. Not sure if I should be concerned or not -- I hear tales of people starting flowering this early and clearly, these two are quite a ways from that point. They do seem healthy though and neither one showed any signs of shock from the transplant.

[Token LaRoche]

Thinking that tomorrow will probably be watering day. All I've done since Sunday is take pictures and the top half inch of the coco is pretty dry today. Thoughts? I'm thinking it's time to increase the nutes to 1/2 the Fox Farms recommendation (from 1/3). Two day's growth on Shirley is indicating about 0.3 inches a day, measured tip-to-tip on the biggest leaves. Here's the pics from Monday, yesterday and today:

Attachment 290526Attachment 290527Attachment 290528

Not looking bad, but things still seem slow -- Shirley is now 19 days from seed. Laverne is actually smaller (but doing okay) and is now a full 4 weeks from seed.

This is probably that time everyone warns about where growers make mistakes from impatience. I'm determined to not do this, but do plan to up the nutes by a fraction on the next watering (so stop me if y'all think this is a bad idea). If things are still looking good this weekend, I might move this over to the grow log area.

As always, thoughts and comments are not only welcome, but fun!

[Token LaRoche]

Damn. Didn't mean to hit the forum with the high resolution shots. Will tone it down in the future.

[polishpollack]

Low_rdr, okay, that's clears things up.
Token, looking good so far.

[Token LaRoche]

Plants look healthy. Watered them today with a half strength mix of FF hydro; pH adjusted to 6.0 or as close as I can get. Been four days now since transplant and the top of the coir was pretty dry today.

Long way from thinking of flower yet...?

[polishpollack]

Yeah, let them grow for a while. They continue to grow in flower so based on your room size and how big you can let them get and how long you can grow without too much trouble, you can easily flower anywhere from about 1 foot tall to 3 feet or so. It will get very smelly, so be forewarned. In the end, it's the grower's decision when to flower, not really the plant's so much. Outdoors flowering is just based on exposure to sunlight.

[Token LaRoche]

Thanks, pp (and low_rdr, and everyone). You've helped me get "on track" with this, and I really want to "do it right." Comments of any sort always welcome.

I've learned from all the reading that patience helps a lot (and I'm trying!). Outside of things going a little slower than I expected, the two plants I have are really looking pretty healthy.

I read a lot before I started this and hope I'm equipped for the smell. I'm growing in a 3x3x6' grow tent that I've set up with a carbon filter and an inline fan. Don't use that (yet) -- just have a small fan to keep the air moving. Really small operation and I've probably spent about a grand so far (including seeds - this shit adds up fast). Ideally, I'd like to have a continuous indoor crop going for my own use, and maybe a bit to give away to friends (no commercial desire). I'm legal by virtue of geography (wink, wink) and an old geezer who grew a bit 25-30 years ago and smoked my share of pot back in the 70's and early 80's. Been an advocate for legalization For. Fucking. Ever.

Anyway, I'm digging the community here -- you guys are great and are a big help.

Laverne says hi!
Attachment 290571

[Token LaRoche]

Babies are looking pretty good, but just in the last couple days, I've noticed some yellow fringing on the bigger leaves of one plant:

Attachment 290626

Should I worry? The other plant (same seed, identical conditions all around) isn't showing this. I thought it might be due to drying out a bit, but maybe not? Went 6 days without water, but the mix was still damp (and I'm still learning). Watered last night and used the same formula as before; 50% strength of the FF hydro nutes, pH balanced.