Help! Is she dead? - Seedling did not sprout

[5cooby doo]

Gerimated 4 PC from Barney's using paper towel. 3 days in there and they had at least 1/2" if not longer taproots. Put them in soil (that was pre-watered a few hours before and left under 400w MH to heat up). Covered with plastic wrap and left under the lights at 18/6. Temp low is 19C and temp high is 30C, but usually around 28C. They were about 1-2" to 3/4" deep, sprinkled some soil on top from the sides of the cup and very lightly with my finger patted it down.

3 days later one seedling is looking pretty healthy maybe 2 inches tall, on it's first set of true leaves. The other two didn't sprout and the third was late germinating and late into the soil so I will keep on eye on her.

Only watered with a mist/spray bottle, a few quirts when the top of the soil was dry to the touch. (probably ended up watering once a day - few squirts). And still no sprout. I sifted around the soil lightly with my finger and saw the seed, and slightly saw the taproot - so I slightly sifted the soil back over and give it another two small squirts. HAS IT DIED? Or is there still a chance? (Only did this with ONE of the two that didn't sprout). *Within an hour it was dry again I gave it a proper watering to the pain there was a few drops of run off.

All the seedling were treated the exact same way, one is healthy and the other two still didn't sprout, 5 days later!

5cooby doo Reviewed by 5cooby doo on 12-14-2012. Help! Is she dead? - Seedling did not sprout Gerimated 4 PC from Barney's using paper towel. 3 days in there and they had at least 1/2" if not longer taproots. Put them in soil (that was pre-watered a few hours before and left under 400w MH to heat up). Covered with plastic wrap and left under the lights at 18/6. Temp low is 19C and temp high is 30C, but usually around 28C. They were about 1-2" to 3/4" deep, sprinkled some soil on top from the sides of the cup and very lightly with my finger patted it down. 3 days later one seedling is Rating: 5

[Weezard]

This should help:Attachment 288447Attachment 288448

Well, it would if this board hadn't hosed up my pics.

Crap! now I gotta type.

Basicall, pot seeds are teardrop shaped.
They fall to the ground pointy end up.
The root emerges from the pointy end and is programmed to turn 180 degrees.
It does a u-turn.

That lets it push the root down without pushing the seed out of the ground.
When the root is established, it uses the bent part to drag it's self out of the ground backwards.
Which helps it shed it's husk.

Start with the tap root pointing up, and you seldom have to deal with a stuck-on seed husk.
The seedlings break ground sooner and healthier.

If you plant them with the emerging root pointed down, (which seems logical), they do their u-turn, start to see light, and do another u-turn.
That extra step uses up energy stored in the seed.

Causes stunting, or at the least, wimpyness, as the double bend slows transpiration.

Agrowha,
Weezard

[LOC NAR on probation]

Sounds like the soil is not moist enough and the root has dried out. Soil needs to be moist but not soaking wet. If it dries that fast sounds like underwatered. One got lucky.


Thanks for the info Weezard. I wondered why they had a hard time from seed when I put the root down. Been a long time since I sprouted any but I will remember with a few new strains coming my way for xmas.

[5cooby doo]

Weezward, Thanks very informative!

What I find strange is that the only seedling that sprouted was the one that went completely root down. (but it was the only one with a Straight root!) The others had curvy/bendy roots.... trying to be very delicate once they were placed in the soil with tweezers it was sort of root facing up, I didn't want to try to touch them and put them root down (WHICH IS the way I thought they were supposed to be!). I don't think they dried out as, for the most part the soil stayed moist/warm to the touch.

I have managed to stabilize my temperatures a little better, now sitting at 26-27 for the most part, but it does go up to 28-29 if i'm not around. Still no sign of sprouting but I'm not going to give up yet!

Hopefully I didn't damage her when I sifted through and saw the top of her seed shell.

[5cooby doo]

Update: It's been exactly 7 days from when they first went into soil and absolutely no sign of sprouting! Are they dead? Should I keep waiting?

The seed that germinated late has been there for 5 days and that also didn't sprout.

Damn expensive seeds! I can't afford to fail!

The only one to sprout is looking healthy!

Don't know what else I can do? I have kept the soil moist (not wet) and warm the entire time! (at night it's like 20C / 67-68F)..day is like (30C/ 86F)

[Weezard]

OK, there's one thing you can try.

I've had days when nothing would sprout, and other days when seed from the same batch germed 100%.
Lola used to blame it on the moon.

I no wanna believe, I wanna know!
So, I started checking variables.

Bingo!
Moon, schmoon, the correlation was Relative Humidity.
Seeds get their sprouting signal from moisture.
On high humidity days here, the seed husk has trouble knowing that it just got wet.

So, I planted a bunch on a day with 80% RH.
Not a sausage.
So, I just left them there until the soil was very dry.

When the RH hit 40% I figured the seed husk was dry enough and gave them plain tap water.
90% germed!

This is not science, of course, but I'd call it an indicator.
And, it won't help sprouted seeds, sprouts must never dry out.
Now I watch the RH, and I'm back to >90% success with known good seed.

You got dead seed, you got problems.

Bottom line?
At this point you could wait another 7 days.
But you should dry out at least some of them and try re-wetting.

Aloha, hope it he'ps,
Weeze

[5cooby doo]

Hey weez, appreciate the help. I had another acc here and you were very supportive (had to change since my identity was compromised as someone knew who I was...can't have that :P)

I will try the humidity thing, the RH has been quite high and rainy the past few days ... time for them to dry hopefully.

The one I had been poking at before... I decided to play around with. I figured it wasn't going to sprout so I decided to dig around a little. Well I ended up sifting through it with a paper clip little by little until I reach THE BOTTOM OF THE CUP! I didn't see a seed at all and I went through the soil so carefully! No seed, No taproot, no roots! JUST SOIL!

The other girl is still as it sits, letting her dry out a bit and the one that was late to germinate also drying out a bit (since it is day 6 for that one too now!). Might have to resort to the last two NON FEM seeds I have . Hopefully I can get one or two of them to sprout... I don't want just one girl under a 400 .

[5cooby doo]

Sorry for double posting, it wouldn't let me edit.

I will most likely germinate another one to replace the dead girl. Any tips for me? Here's what I put together:
-Paper Towel Germination (as this has been working for me quite well )
-Tweezers to transfer to soil
* beside the 'tips' I didn't do so well with last time.
-Tap Root UP*
-Sprinkle a little soil on top, don't compress it down with finger? **
-Don't plant too deep (I was about 3/4" but maybe I'll go a little less deep this time) *
-Keep temperatures up (75-80F?)
-Maintain warm temperatures at night * (heater to keep the temps around 75 rather than the low 65-70 it gets at night)*
-Plastic Over seedling
-FAR AWAY (2.5-3 feet) from light? * (mines were 10" away... like you would keep for a seedling)

When watering is it better to just pour water out of a water bottle or should I use a mist bottle? Is about a half ounce of water a decent amount?

That's all I can think of

[Weezard]

"When watering is it better to just pour water out of a water bottle or should I use a mist bottle? Is about a half ounce of water a decent amount?"

I quit using paper towels years ago, but I can help with the dirty work.

First, start with moist, not wet, PH-neutral soil.
(When squeezed in the hand, no water drips out and it forms a crumbly ball.)

I place the seed, (pointy end up), 1/4 -1/2" deep.
Depending on seed size.
They seldom need watering until they sprout.
Then, if you want them to throw a long tap root and grow tall, use a measuring cup and drip the water gently, dead center.
For sog, scrog, and shorties, use a mister and wet the full surface.

The amount depends on the container size, type of soil, RH, root mass, vigor, temperature, leaf area light intensity, blah X3,
In other words, aim for result.
Consider all variables then add just enough to keep the soil damp, but not wet.
The idea is, to water a little bit as often as necessary.

Water loses air as it sits.
Stale water drowns roots.
So, ideally, you want to be able to add freshly aerated water every few hour for the first week.
Bottom line?
Not too dry, not too wet, Mammabear kine.

A bottle is not recommended it will "glug" and disturb the seed.
Measuring cups work well, and help you keep track of amounts.

Ya owe me 2 cents.

Aloha,
Weeze

[5cooby doo]

Two more things I wanted too ad:

I "dug up" the other girl... her tap root was't event attached to the seed! And had not even grown at all from when she went into the soil. Was wondering if you can pick out any fault from that?

Also, can I "re-use" the soil from the failed attempt?

edit: just read you're post I'll comment more when I get back (just leaving right now)... Good info though, hopefully my second try will go better.

Peace.