The resurection is the key!

[Razer]

Post what you like, as will I. You are just oblivious to any reasoning apparently. Look back in post #25 of this thread and you will see I agreed with you on what the original sin was. But, evidently the following point escaped you. According to the Bible, You and everyone else are guilty of your own sins not Adam's. Yes, sin was introduced into creation in the Garden, but apparently we all feel compelled to ratify its cause and effects through our own choices.

And... before you all line up to kill the messenger, I did not write the message. And whether I am an ass or not does not change what it says. So, if you are able to articulate sincere objections, then I would be glad to share my opinion and understanding, along with pointing out the evidence that compels me to believe the way I do.

If on the other hand you just want to join the lynch mob, as others have so eloquently put it, I can't stop you. Whoop yourselves into a feeding frenzy if you like. It won't make you any less ignorant though.

Psychocat, I am not opposed to you either, only the offensive way that you have approached the discussion. We don't have to be advesaries. Maryjanemama and I appeared at odds at first, but I think we have both relaxed significantly toward each other, once it left the personal nature.

[Razer]

I don't think I've ever met a christain that enjoys smoking the ganja. Bt then again, I don't know if online mettings qualify. Does your church group know about your herbal indulgences? What do they/ would they think?
Do you as a pot smoking christain support gays?

I thank God that my state of imperfection does not exclude me from receiving his grace in my life. I suppose pot smoking christians aren't real popular in either group. People, being the common denominator in both, are quick to tear down those who are not like them.

To be frank, no, others at the church do not know that I smoke. If they did, I am sure they would disaprove of the practice. They also don't know, when I lose my temper, or exceed the speed limit. The point here is that we are all sinners in varying degrees of rebellion. I am not ashamed of smoking, many know I am christian and smoke pot.

I am not suprised to hear all the negative comments when you find out that I believe the Bible. They killed Jesus for his revelations. It's just the normal background noise. But, for those who have questions, there are answers. Nobody says you have to believe, but shouldn't you atleast consider this thing that provokes such a base response from so many.

Do I support gays? Why do you ask? Are you Gay? Are you trying to make the extrapulation that since I smoke pot (apparently wrong in your mind) that therefore I should be excepting of other wrongs. Should I condone stealing since I smoke pot? Of, course not. Thinly veiled attempt to draw me into another rhetorical baseless argument. Does the Bible condemn homosexuality? Yes it does. Does it condemn homosexuals? Only in the same way that all sin is rejected by God, but he offers a solution to those interested.

I am not against homosexuals. I have known and liked several gay people, but that does not mean I have to like the act of homosexuality. It is more loving to tell someone the truth about the destructive nature of their behavior, than to bow to social pressure to accept it as the norm. I don't think that I know any Christian homosexuals, but I am sure there are many. Should they have to accept that I smoke pot since they are homosexual? Obviously, one does not follow the other in logic. Clearly a ploy of divisiveness.

Ultimatley, the issue of how Scripture handles any topic is not a function of whether I smoke pot or not. It is true or untrue on its own merits.

[Razer]

Just in case you are genuinely interested in what the Bible has to say about homosexuality.

http://www.equip.org/free/CP1307.pdf

Christ gave Himself to be the sacrifice for all of our transgressions.

[Razer]

Psychocat, does this sound familiar?

"You presume far too much and propose something which belongs in the land of fables.I was at no point attacking your beliefs mearly stating my own opinion..."

Summarlily categorizing my faith as a fable sounds like an attack to me. If you have some particular issue about the Bible, then lets discuss what you think. If you just plan to have a book burning party, then have at it, atleast we'll know where you're coming from.

[joker121]

Do I support gays? Why do you ask? Are you Gay? Are you trying to make the extrapulation that since I smoke pot (apparently wrong in your mind) that therefore I should be excepting of other wrongs.

I am actually bisexual, but I was wondering, more becasue prety much every christain and catholic that I know thinkls that gays are going to hell. You don't have to get defensive at all. I accept you for whatever you are, and whatever you believe.
You just seem to be an anomily amogst christains, and it fascinated me. Most that I know fit into a cookie cutter mold . You are actually a refreshing insight, into the possibilities of humanity, when they think for themselves. Please don't be offended, I mdon't mean to.
namaste.

[Daisy420]

Psychocat, an effective use of the english language to express your thoughts more succinctly is hardly arrogance. Your continued personal attacks only bare out my earlier comments. Try discussing the issue instead of resorting to personal attack after attack. It's boring! Drone, drone, drone!!! So, you don't like me huh? Ouch!

Concerning the doctrine of Original Sin, I would agree with you that it is about the fruit incident in the garden. However, Scripture does not say you are guilty because adam sinned, but rather because people sin personally against their Creator. It is the sin nature passed from one generation to the next and the death that results from it.
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--" NASB Rom 5:12
"For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous." NASB Rom 5:19

So, your beef is not with me but with Scripture. Also, I made no claim to be more intelligent, but I would not hesitate to say that my posts as relates to the personal attack type posts are hands down more itellectualy based.

Not that it does any good to explain to you, but the point I made on bringing preconceived conclusions is that if you exclude one of the possibilities out of hand then you can't rely on the conclusion since it is not knowledge but prejudice, exposed!

About being a Christian-a-phobe, that is a generalisation about people (definitely like you) who lash out at those expressing faith in the God of the Bible. You don't have to believe. I certainly didn't ask you to.

And, that brings up your other cronies, like Daisy420, can you take a deep breath and explain what you mean, what am I shoving down your throat. Others can post all they want that I am wrong, but I express my opinion and I am "shoving it down your throat." If the pot doesn't help you Daisy, then try valium. You're a little high strung, don't you think?

maryjanemama, although I am liking you better lately, I am puzzled by your response as well. Who mentioned anything about a church or stained windows. My belief is not dependent on the Pope, any prophet, or experience, but rather grounded in God's Word. If you are curious about what I believe on a topic, just ask and I will be glad to discuss it with you.

The thing that I can not tolerate, is to let all the bogus assertions go without challenge.

oh dear , oh dear , have i upset you ?? suggesting vallium ? tut tut , and from a ' good ' christian like ur self...lol . i think you are highly strung mate . so i am a ' christian - o -phobe ' ? hmmm , really . you are talking out of ya arse on that bit , dont YOU think , like i said, belive in wot you want to , theres no law on that , but i still think that ,and yes you are , shoving your opinions down our throats. face the facts Razor , you the only one ' fighting ' here and you can quote all the bollocks in the world from the bible , i think people are finding you just plain boring now. i certainly do.

[psychocat]

Why should the contents of a book be so important?
If it could be proved where's the need for faith?
Why not believe in the Legend of King Arthur?
The Bible is a book and if you were making a film of it the synopses would run something like this.
You have your good guy (God)
you have your bad guy (Satan)
They have a big battle stretching over two thousand years.
God wins and Satan and all his followers are wiped out.
Hey man people will love it,we get Arnie to play God.
This sounds like the plot to thousands of books and films and why should the bible be any different,Its just not convincing enough for me to view it in any other way.Just to clarify a point which version of the bible are we actualy talking about??
I have absolutely no phobias I think all people are the same we can all be all things so I view Humanity as I view all things objectively.
Up to now I am simply not convinced that the bible is anything other than carrot and stick psychology wrapped up in a fantastic story, on a par with Aesops Fables.What can you bring to the table to make me think differently.
But remember I have pretty much heard everyones arguments before,
Catholic,Protestant,Jehovas and Mormons and a couple of lesser known groups as well.Up to now I still do not believe in God in fact I think it is the singular most divisive thing other than politics.
Remember this is a open forum and if you post here then you have to expect to recieve opinions from people who don't agree with yours,like I already said I don't really care what people think of me or my thoughts.
It is always interesting to get a different perspective but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.Free speech Free mind the way it should be.

[Razer]

Your tone has improved to civil and is much appreciated. I am all up for discussion if it really interests you. What new can I bring to the table? Well there are several facets of evidence. One is specific prophecy. Are you familiar with Ezekiel and his fortelling of Tyre's future (The trade capital of the ancient world, the most significant city at the time), even to this day? I will be happy to share the incontrovertible details with you if you like. It's just one of several such instances.

On the issue of what translation, I am not speaking of any particular one. But, I can assure you that several are reliable; including the KJB, NIV, NASB etc. The real issue is are any of them trustworthy. The evidence for the reliability of scripture is more sure than the writing's of Plato and the history of Alexander the Great. Here are a couple of articles that handle it in brief. More resources are available if anyone is interested. Critiques are welcome. Please though, don't waste your time or mine by making it personal. Make a point about something I have presented if you are sincere about the topic

Reliability of the Bible
http://www.equip.org/free/CP1000.pdf.

Reliability of the Bible manuscripts
http://www.equip.org/free/CP1001.pdf

How do we know that the Bible is the word of God?
http://www.equip.org/free/CP1012.pdf

If you have already made your mind up that there is no God, then I can talk until I'm blue in the face. However, if you are open, God left His calling card.

[Razer]

If you don't want what I think shoved down your throat, go to personal prefs and click ignore on me. That way you won't have to be troubled by my opinions.

[Razer]

Joker121, forgive me if I was hasty to defensive positions. I am sure you can see why I have felt attacked in previous posts.

My faith is the cornerstone of my reality. I am able and willing to defend it, but would rather share it with those interested. Your non-agressive approach is refreshing as well. I wouldn't let what people think of you (even those people who go to church) keep you from seeking out God. James 4:8 says "Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you." I can admit easily that many in the clergy have offended and many christian's may have their nose in the air. There have been atrocities commited in the name of Christ. None the less, we should not throw the baby out with the bath water. If you know what I mean. Scripture is can only be found true or untrue on it's own merits and not by the example of fallen mankind (even church goers.)
Personally, I didn't care for Bill Clinton getting blow jobs in the oval office, but I'm sure you can agree that the transgression did not bare on whether the decisions he made from that office were right or wrong. They need to be judged on their own merits as well and not by his other misdeeds. Likewise, you ought to consider the Bible for its own evidence.

The fact that you are bisexual does not bother me. You are free to live your life as well. I do believe though that it is a risk filled lifestyle. I don't condone it either, but I can accept you (which doesn't mean accept all your actions) without either of us being perfect. Did you read the article in the link about what the Bible says about homosexuality? If so, any comments?

Thanks for being respectful in your query. I hope you will find me to be the same.