hey weeze, what is this?

[steezyd]

So I cant figure out what this is, this is the third batch that's had it after Ive completely started fresh with new strain same nutes but brand new(which never gave me trouble before,veg was always the easiest).

So the plant close up is the one with the problem, its also the smallest one out of six and only it shows these symptoms...
so far, the rest are almost double its size.

so I was thinking maybe a overdose? ive had nute burn before and its not burning the tips or at the top of the plant, this starts on sides of leaves and just gets worse.

the other pic is all plants, they look fine now but i have a bad feeling there gonna do the same thing

temp is 70-77
runoff ph is 6.4(calibrated as well)
proper ventilation

any ideas Weeze? anybody?


[attachment=o286400][attachment=o286401]

steezyd Reviewed by steezyd on 08-31-2012. hey weeze, what is this? So I cant figure out what this is, this is the third batch that's had it after Ive completely started fresh with new strain same nutes but brand new(which never gave me trouble before,veg was always the easiest). So the plant close up is the one with the problem, its also the smallest one out of six and only it shows these symptoms... so far, the rest are almost double its size. so I was thinking maybe a overdose? ive had nute burn before and its not burning the tips or at the top of Rating: 5

[Weezard]

Ideas?
Sure, got choke ideas.
Just not about that.

About that, all I got is a wild-ass guess.
I think the trouble stems from the roots.
I see some lumber in that soil.
If the tap root hits one of those chunks directly it will stunt the plant.
If the root system is sub-par it will act like it's root bound.
At least, that's what it looks like to me.

But I'm quite likely mistaken.
I'm not a good diagnostician of plants.
Seems most of the really good mentors got banned from here.

They are now frequenting other sites. Happily helping folks like me.
All that's left of this formerly great board is some excellent archives and a very few old timers.
Maybe google Rusty Tricomb, or Old mac?

Aloha,
Weeze

[LOC NAR on probation]

Looks to me like a hot spot issue. Or two leaves laying together and transpiring. the leaf on the bottom has water on it and ends up a little cooked. Or water spilled on it during light hours and a burn.

Good news. Everthing else looks good. Do not worry about one leaf. just keep an eye on it and rock on.

[steezyd]

hmmm, Well Ive always used this soil(sunshine#4)w/o problems but I did start getting it from a new store.

I don't think its from two leaves lying together or the water thing though because this exact thing happen to my last 6 la cheese plants all over & this is blue dream.
(I thought my veg nutes went bad though maybe because they were kinda chunky and thick[not supposed to be]...and they were 2 years old, so I replaced it(CNS17 botanicare),+ the ph down and the soil for 6 Blue dreams.

This problem will keep progressing too if I do nothing. but the top will always be fine, until late flower until it finally works its way up to the top tips.
(resulting in a very unhealthy plant, very low yielding and pretty much the worst looking plants I'm going to harvest)

With the cheese they had it from the beginning because the mother I took them from had it too, So I was hoping a fresh start would eliminate it.
this is what that looked like after a week or so of first appearing. [attachment=o286402]


The hot spot thing could have played a part, I did have the plant on top of something to make it even w/ the other plants, I'm using florescent though, how do you eliminate possible hotspots? I just clean inside the sealed hoods and the glass for HID, same thing here?


we can all agree its not a deficiency right? I dont see any rust spots which is the first thing I would look for in a so called deficient plant.

I only gave it 15ml of grow and 10ml of liquid karma perG, but maybe it was too much for the little guy?which is why big ones are okay?
so with that in mind I went ahead and flushed just the one plant to see how it reacts, and ill give it a half dose of nutes next watering.

hopefully I dont see anymore of this.
thanks for the help guys One love

[Weezard]

Just got a new bale, eh?
There are a dozen different S#4 formulations.

I liked my first bale of Sunshine mix so much That I grabbed another bale as soon as my hydro shop got new stock.
Seems their "Aggregate" mix is pre-nuted differently and I burned some fans off by feeding too early.
(Gave 'em 1/4 strength when the cotyledons shriveled, 'cause this strain is not a heavy feeder)
Now, they get plain water until the new terminal growth starts to pale.
I'll read the bag carefully, in the store, next time.

We might have found the root of the problem here, by blind luck.
("Even a blind pig, finds an occasional acorn")

Aloha,
Weezard

[steezyd]

Alright, Ive been doing some research on sunshine #4 (black bag w/ blue label) and there have been a lots of people who have had problems with it.

Apparently the company has changed some things, the main problem people were having was the ppms in the soil was too high, in some cases an extreme 1200-1600 ppm...(wow)

There were also really bad ph levels & this and that. I know there were starter nutes in it, but apparently that mix is not consistent with everybag produced.


So I went ahead and tested the ppm and ph of my bag(calibrated both digital tools before and after test)

The total ppm was 700 but i used tap water instead of RO so minus 300ppm, and the ppm level is 400.

It doesn't seem that bad BUT when you take into account the first nute feeding
(15ml of grow and 10 ML of liquid karma + the fact that I use tap water for VEG only)I mean the total ppm was probably between 1000-1400 which was too much for it I guess, I'm really just lucky the bigger ones didnt have it.

What still bothers me though is that if this was a over dose why didnt I get burned tips right away? or any at the very top of the plant? or random burn spots? these were all the same way, at the same part of plant (middle to lower)

Well i already flushed the 5 inch pot with one and a half gallons of ph'd water, a couple other leave are doing the same thing on the same plant only, but the top is fine, hopefully it will pass and recover.

[steezyd]

Just looked again, and it looks like two of the big ones are starting to show the symptoms[attachment=o286472][attachment=o286473]


So something is still wrong...and I dont know what to do, its just going to keep spreading, i know it, Im going to cut clones off these in a week or so, then I could replace the soil bail and the liquid karma and hope that fixes it. but idk, this has never happened with these products before, always green and healthy before.

[steezyd]

Attachment 287022Attachment 287023Attachment 287024Attachment 287025

Well I went ahead and cut clones, I let them get nice and rooted and put them in 3inch pots and its been 10 days.

I went with new soil(foxfarm light warrior and oceanic forest)

Now during the cloning process they looked good for the most part, but i did see some very faint discoloration(like the symptoms) once the roots were popping.
so I figured that needed to work its way out , but idk, looks like Im seeing the same thing, just very slowly.

this new soils ph is a little different, Ive been going in at 6.9 and coming out at 5.8, so Ive been giving it 7.5-7.6 Ro water w/ cal mag to try and get it right

I put all clones in light warrior except one which is in ocean forest, and the OF looks good, I wish I put them all in OF, I was gonna transplant to OF & 5 inch pots @ end of the week.

(The plants I took the cuttings from , I transplanted to OF but the symptoms just got worse to whew there was barely any growth so i put them outside just to see if they will bounce back, but so far they look terrible)

I dont expect anyone to be able to help, at this point im just venting...but this shit really depresses me, id giveanything to know what the prob is

[Weezard]

"so i put them outside just to see if they will bounce back, but so far they look terrible)"

Yikes!

Those symptoms in clones usually mean they are getting too much light, not too little.
It's when they are pushed to grow faster than their roots will support that they raid the fan leaf for nitrogen and stored sugars.

Try raising the light about a foot.

Good luck, and aloha
Weeze

[steezyd]

Okay, I did raise the light, but I use a t5 floro in veg and Ive always tried to get as close as I could and never had any problems.

With that said as each day goes by more and more of the plants show symptoms, so I somehow came up with this crazy concept...
soil borne pathogen virus/disease

I guess its basically like a disease of some sort that attacks the roots, so I looked at the plants roots, and found mostly white...
but with some brown speckling, and then I thought some were really brown...BUT I dont over water them, Ive never had root rot and I dont think this is that.

Even though i switched strains I used the same soil, and then when I did switch soil the old soil was still in the same grow room(mothers) so It could have easily infected the new soil.(i think)

Does this seem far fetched?...yes, but at this point Ive got nothing & I already threw away half of the plants in anger lol, as soon as the remaining plants show symptoms im gonna toss them and bleach fucking everything.

In the mean time look at the pics of the roots...what ya think?
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