50kW Experimetal Low pressure Aeroponic Grow w/ water cooling, RO, CO2. NEED HELP.

[John Francis]

Strains (from clone stock):

Alien Dawg
Purple D
Grapefruit Diesel
OG Kush
Critical Yumbolt

This is being posted all across the web, and I'm going to be monitoring all of the threads. I may end up closing some and directing people to other forums, if some threads aren't producing results. I need a fair amount of advice, especially with chilling.

My history.

I've only ever brought one set of plants to harvest, and there were only two or three females in the bunch. But it was aero, I got around .56g/watt, and it was some of the most dense, oily buds that I've ever smoked. Possibly the most potent I've ever had - but I won't get ahead of myself, because I'm an amateur and I can't forget that. My last grow was 250w with a grow space of 20"x16"x28". This grow has 200x the lighting. I'm an amateur and I'll need help.


Current grow info:

I've got no experience with an grow of this size. I've budgeted around $5000 a month for power.
I already killed a fuckload of clones through PH, temperature, and mold issues. PH and mold has been mostly resolved. Temps should be more acceptable now too. The cloners also don't leak light inside anymore, which should help as well. I'm currently using 4ml/gal of ThriveAlive B-1 Red and RO water, at 70-75f. It should be fine there. Pump and 100w of florescent lights are running 24/7, primarily to keep the res at that temp. Clones were previously in a veg room with temps around 68-69F, with mold and unPH'd water for a while, and they were taking too long to root.


My RO filter membrane died already - not unexpected, as I have non-potable 1500ppm source water and it's a Hydrologic Evolution unit that I was using for kitchen, shower, and grow water. I'm not sure if my water softener works right either. I'm back to purchased water for my clones, but I'm going to put down a few thousand, hopefully this week, on a commercial RO system. Advice in that area could be used, but I've now got a local supplier that seems to know his shit, for the most part. Budget is $4-5k.


I've made more than a few amateur fuckups so far - buying 15mm thick light extension cables rather than a spool of wire, letting my roots rot when my budget got held up, ignoring an unknown white mold infection on stems/hydroton(now treated, not P.M.) and continual issues with rooting clones (cloners have now been remodeled though and lots of new ones were cut within the last three days).
I can't afford to make similar mistakes on expensive shit like AC units and chillers - but I also can't afford to continually delay start-up.

We're running at 10% lighting capacity right now, planning to move up to 20% this week. I don't have the electrical lines for more yet, but I will have 400A three phase ready to go within the week or two. We're just waiting on the power company, but I haven't set up the flowering rooms yet anyway.


This is going OPEN SOURCE. Thus, I'm planning to post this all over the web. Growery, Grass City, Cannabis.com, Cannabis Culture, RollItUp, ICMag, and THCFarmer.The custom built system I've designed is modular, as expandable as possible, with high reliability, low cost, and easy modifications. It's so simple, you could even run it in a greenhouse. Pics/details soon.


I'm running SOLIS-TEK dimmable digital ballasts, so the total lighting will actually be "55kW" at full capacity.
I've got incomplete plans for water cooled CO2, water cooling for res + supplemental room chilling (+AC), likely battery backup for the pumps, commercial RO system, and probably some more fun stuff I forgot about or haven't thought of yet.


What I aim to build is a prototype of something much larger. I hope to show everyone why NASA grows in Aeroponics, and at the same time, I'm going to show you all how easily we can do it too. My goal is to first outgrow, and then be outgrown.



Areas of advice required:

- *Air conditioning.

- *Chilling. Looking for possibly a 5 horsepower unit with a small internal or external reservoir that I can use to pump chilled water through the whole house. Efficiency is required, because I'm paying for power. Alternatively, I could get a couple smaller units - but that's not what I want to do. Budget for this is around $5-8k, all in. I'm considering sourcing a bunch of aluminum motorcycle radiators from China as well for some modular room and possibly res cooling. Alternatively, I've got 1/2" copper pipe coils that could cool reservoirs.

- Air intake. I need large Hepa filters - I was thinking maybe that I could make a filter box with a frame and some furnace filters and then getting a 12" inline or whatever to pull through? I'm going to be exhausting 4 to 5 6" inlines from each flowering room (1 fan for 4-5 lights - sealed hoods). That will fuck with my CO2, which I have not set up yet, so I am interested in options for a completely sealed system. It'll be easier to advise in this area once I post pictures though.

- Spray painting plastic buckets - I've got a big ass air compressor on the deck that I haven't hooked up. I'm hoping to find some paint that works on plastics so I can paint all my buckets white. This will make a huge difference in res temps.



To clarify, I've got 10kW upstairs for veg and I'm going to put together two 20kW rooms on a couple of FlipBoxes (I already have the lights, ballasts, reflectors, hangers, ducting).



More details and pictures soon. Stay safe my friends. Please comment. :stoned:

John Francis Reviewed by John Francis on 05-22-2012. 50kW Experimetal Low pressure Aeroponic Grow w/ water cooling, RO, CO2. NEED HELP. Strains (from clone stock): Alien Dawg Purple D Grapefruit Diesel OG Kush Critical Yumbolt This is being posted all across the web, and I'm going to be monitoring all of the threads. I may end up closing some and directing people to other forums, if some threads aren't producing results. I need a fair amount of advice, especially with chilling. Rating: 5

[John Francis]

This is real my friends. I have political motivations for this - and to achieve them, I require financial security. That is where this project comes in.
(responding to comments at ICMag)
---

Alright, so I've made the decision that I cannot maintain 5-6 threads and do this project.-- Mods, please do not delete my threads on forums I am not regularly updating - if those threads stay up, eventually I will post some pictures to all of them, to spread the knowledge.

I'm going to be regularly maintaining the two threads that people actually bothered to post in:
At the Growery: 50kW Experimetal Low pressure Aeroponic Grow w/ water cooling, RO, CO2, mold, and lots of fuckups - Grow Journals - Growery Message Board
At ICMag: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=238551

Also, I've decided I'm going to start with a batch of clones instead of a bunch of mothers that look like shit. I don't want anyone getting the wrong impression of the system because of mistakes I've made independently of the system, and how it seems now, my moms will hit the lights before I flower them. They're not liking the 1000ppm source water much either - the clones are getting bottled.

----
Today I got my compressor hooked up and spent most of the day painting buckets with white primer. I may or may not put a top coat. I currently have a higher painting priority, which is painting the floor white.(After buckets and reservoirs. Less light absorbed = less heat produced.)

Here's the new commercial RO I'm getting (ordered today):
HL - High TDS RO Systems
1800gpd unit
options chosen: Multi Media Filter, Carbon Filter, Antiscalant injection.
Note the features: TDS, auto membrane flush, backwash, flowmeters, pretty colors, shiny metal, etc.
Cost $6600+ shipping and maintenance products

Here's the 5 ton chillking chiller I'm getting. I will be supplementing this with a couple existing air conditioners. options: energy efficient pump and cold water upgrade. (ordering monday - if there are any objections or better (faster delievery) options - state now!)
Watercooledgardens.com :: Chillers - Residential :: ChillKing Basic 5 Ton Chiller
Cost probably $6000 + upgrades and $450 shipping.


As for my secret grow system, I'm using a modular top-fed bucket systems fed by dual pressurized feedlines from remote reservoirs. The buckets are elevated and drain through corrugated tubing into ABS piping, which returns the water to the reservoirs. There are two pumps per reservoir. There is one 1/4" minor feedline for each bucket from each main feedline. Each pressurizes one main feedline. One system could run one bucket or 100 buckets, and you can arrange them however you want. I am currently running a maximum of 30 buckets using two 2200gph submersible sump pumps (60x 0.06mm sprayers per pump).

Understand? Think it over for a while. I'll explain the why and the how in more detail later, with pictures.

I've already had two pump failures ($90 pumps), and no adverse affects, other than one pump shorting and turning into a res heater for a bit. ( lol ) And my plants are never in DWC!

Now, making use of my soapbox - some unrelated left wing political banter!

----------------------------

How Banks Create Money Through Debt

It's a very complicated concept that took me (John Francis) quite some time to gain an understanding of, but for the purposes of explanation, I've worked out a simplified example in an economy where only $100 exists and there's a 4% reserve ratio mandated on banks. The effects of interest are ignored, for simplicity of calculations.

Here's the background reading.
Fractional reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The simplified example:

Madam starts with $100, and everyone else starts with $0.

Madam deposits $100 into her account at Bank1.
Bank1 keeps 4% on reserve and lends $96 to Bank2.
Madam now has $100, Bank1 has $4, and Bank2 has $96.

John gets a $96 loan from Bank2 and buys services from Madam for $96.
Madam deposits $96 into her bank account and now she has $196. Bank1 has $100, Bank2 has $0, and John has $0.

Maintaining its 4% reserves, Bank1 then loans $92.32 to Bank2, which then loans $92.32 to John.
Madam now has $196, Bank1 has $7.68, Bank2 has $0, and John has $92.32.
John owes $188.32 to Bank2, which owes $188.32 to Bank1, which owes $196 to Madam.
The economy stays solvent as long as John makes his payments and Madam doesn't withdraw all of her cash.

The problem? We started with $100, and now we have $296.

John Bank1 Bank2 Madam
"Cash" $92.32 $7.68 $0 $196
Assets $92.32 $196 $188.32 $196
Debt $188.32 $196 $188.32 $0

Total cash: $296
Total assets: $672.64
Total debt: $572.64

How does this apply to Canada? Check out the links below.
Bank liquid reserves to bank assets ratio (%) in Canada
Canada Bank Bailout Cost $114 Billion At Peak, CCPA Says
(same deal for the US - 2008 bailouts)

[John Francis]

I can't figure out how to edit here.

Just some clarification on this paragraph.

As for my secret grow system, I'm using a modular top-fed bucket system fed by dual pressurized feedlines from remote reservoirs. The buckets are elevated and drain through corrugated tubing into ABS piping, which returns the water to the reservoirs. There are two pumps per reservoir. Each pump pressurizes one main feedline. There is one 1/4" minor feedline for each bucket from each main feedline. Each minor feedline feeds two sprayers. One system could run one bucket or 100 buckets, and you can arrange them however you want. I am currently running a maximum of 30 buckets using two 2200gph submersible sump pumps (60x 0.06mm sprayers per pump).

[Smallville]

I never went swimming before, I waded into the kiddie pool once up to my knees.
I am going to dive into the deep end next, I don't know how to swim. What's your advice??
Learn to swim before jumping in over your head.

[John Francis]

Ehhh... I'm getting banned or my thread is being closed on a bunch of forums, due to lack of updates (and pics). I'm down to three that I barely update, two of which have posts on. Here and the Growery.

It is coming along though. I've figured out what I'm going to do.

I am going from the kiddie pool straight to the deep end, yes, but I've read scoured online articles on how to swim and I've essentially reinvented the houseboat, so hopefully I should maintain buoyancy.


I'm currently being distracted by the wait times on my chiller(probably 5-7w), electrical(1-2w?), and RO system(3-5w). I can maybe get up to 50% with what I've got, but this lack of RO water is discouraging me from flowering. It bothers some strains more than others, but it burns. I haven't flushed as much as I should be though. That will help. I'm also going to look for some membranes. I'm working on my second 3rd stage veg room now and going to paint, then start assembling / wiring my flowering rooms, possibly today. The girls are beasts and were ready to flower a couple weeks ago. A 70 gal res will NOT be too big for 25 or 30 of these plants in flowering.

I've got at least 50% of my buckets and such painted white now. Just have to do my floors and ceiling in the flowering rooms. Planning to start that today.

My fresh clones are rooting well due to the warmer res temps (75-78), but I didn't realize that these res heaters don't have thermostats. That's an inconvenience and hazard.

I've also got some white mold again on my hydroton in my 2nd stage system. My 3rd stage (bucket) is designed to prevent it (dry hydroton), but the second stage harbors it. It seems like I may have reoccurring issues with this, unfortunately. Fortunately it does not seem to attack the plants, other than on the stems of dead ones and moist clones. I'm going over every room with 10% bleach 90% water in a sprayer when I clean them out. I will likely expand it to all rooms.

[John Francis]

Status update!

Alright. I didn't disappear.

Ducting. Ducting is holding me up.

I now have full electricity, as of today, 400A, and my flowering rooms are wired up with a total of 40 Horilux bulbs. Systems are ready for 1/3 of the flowering area, which will be filled by my moms that have been growing into the lights for weeks upstairs. After I get that done, I'll have another set ready to fill another 1/3.



I don't have my chiller and heat exchangers yet, which will do all my air and water cooling, but my stainless steel wart chillers (50ft of 3/8") + solenoids (24v) + controllers (Ranco ETC 24v) arrived - so even if the air is 85, I'm going to make sure my water is 68.


This place is starting to get fun.

[Bloomin Idiot]

I am going from the kiddie pool straight to the deep end, yes, but I've read scoured online articles on how to swim and I've essentially reinvented the houseboat, so hopefully I should maintain buoyancy.

I love virtual growing. lol

Good luck. Sounds...crazy and like you already had some good smoke come through;.

[markhug]

Good luck. I'm new to hydro and indoor planting. So I'm starting small, and going to grow slowly, there is to much that can go wrong without a little
experience to back you up.