thanks for your reply, was growing under 4 36w flows, just the best I had around with 16/8 light cycle?? prob got about what you said 10/15g...would I be better with cfls if so how many?? any help gratefully received....do you think I should stick to auto until I get the hang of it (what are the better autos), just thought clones would speed it up a bit and save keep having to get seeds... thanks again